Why everyone is giving the C bad reviews?

Others have said your posts on this thread did not make sense to them, I guess I'll question this one. These numbers are out of scope. Also, whether the car is built 100% in Japan is out of scope to the poster's point as to whether or not money is, or is not, sent to OPEC via the cost passed along by those who refine a barrel set by the global commodity market. By that calculation, even if 100% of gas came from US sources, the gas one buys is still factored into the market price to OPEC, it would just be that the EU or China were paying that inflated price. So technically "your" dollars are causing their dollars to go to OPEC, because they are part of the same pool. Therefore, if not wanting to support OPEC factors largely into a decision on buying a car, mpg looms larger than is being admitted.

The poster was referencing specifically the outflow of US dollar's to oil producing nations since the gas prices spiked in the last decade. Buying a car that gets ~50 mpg is a statistically significant difference from the Yaris, or the average car sold in the US (~24mpg), as it relates to total cost of ownership accounted by gas.

So where the car was built doesn't equate to a discussion on less money going to Gulf States, because last time I checked, no car company builds in the middle east.

If not supporting the enrichment of those nations is a priority for a buyer, it is difficult to quantify that decision using simple math. Am I the only one noticing the irony that I needed to make this point to a poster with the handle "itsnotaboutthemoney"?

 

Yeah, duh.

 

There are 55 gallons in an oil barrel.
A little over 19 gallons of gasoline can be refined from a barrel of oil. Other products (jet fuel, lubricants, etc.) make up the rest.

 

The standard "barrel of oil" as a measurement is 42 US gallons., see
NIST Guide to SI Units - Appendix B8. Factors for Units

Older oil drums (used mostly for shipping post-product, not raw crude) had many sizes including a 55gallon drum, but 42 gallons is the standard for discussion of crude.

 

I wasn't trying to define payback. I was trying to point out that it isn't a good metric to judge whether to buy a car, if you are planning on financing it.

If you are financing, you aren't putting money 'up front' that you need to 'payback' with savings. You are paying your loan payment, and paying for your gas. If that sum is less per month than your other choices, you have made the wise decision. Who cares what the payback is?

If you are totally broke, and are forced to buy a brand new car, should you buy a Prius C or a Yaris?

For a single year outlook, a Prius C at $18,950 has monthly payments of $74.49 more than a Yaris at $14,875. Driving 1,807 miles per month a Yaris uses $74.49 more per month in gas (at $4.00 / gallon). This is the no-brainer section of the question.

For a 5 year outlook, with gas price going up like it did this year (8.1%), driving 1,538 miles per month, a Yaris uses $4469 more in gas than the Prius C equaling the difference in price plus financing that difference.

If you can consider a 10 year outlook, driving 621 miles per month, the Yaris uses $4469 more in gas than the Prius C, equaling the difference in price plus financing.

Depending on how far you can afford to look, and how far you drive in a month, this should determine when you should buy a Prius C or a Yaris. If your finances are unlikely to change (for the better) in the next ten years, you are definitely better off with a Prius C than a Yaris, if you will put more than 74,000 miles on it over those 10 years.

 

Seawolf and I view this similarly. I can either spend more money on fuel/less money on a non hybrid, or more money on a hybrid/less money on fuel. Eventually, when the two choice have reached equal cost, the hybrid will be ahead in the payback game.

For myself, spending an identical amount of my money with Toyota is more desirable than spending it with a major oil.

 

Go back and read my post again. This time pay attention and note the part of SageBrush's post that I highlighted in bold. I was correcting that point.

My alias ItsNotAboutTheMoney comes from the fact that I bought the Prius despite the fact that my personal circumstances mean that I neither expected nor required that the Prius to have a lower TCO than a conventional car that would have met our needs. I bought it because it helps me reduce gasoline consumption (and overall energy use) and pollution in the miles that I travel. There is additional irony in the alias because I generally am interested in money and a bit of a tightwad.

 

The standard size of an oil barrel (which is a historical convention going back to the beginnings of petroleum extraction) is 42 gallons.

As a result of the refining process there are about 45 gallons of refined product, much of which is worth more than the 19 gallons of gasoline.

 

My wife and I also are proud to own and drive a Prius
and the extra gas saved can go into other
American's SUV's / and big rigs.

When we purchased our Prius in 2009 NOOO
U.S. car company made a vehicle similar to the
Prius that received an EPA of 50 MPG.

Now, if there was a U.S. car company who made
a car similar to the Prius with 50 MPG I would have
bought one instead if it met my standards. So
would millons of other people.

A Ford Focus would probably have been a good
choice, but I had no choice, Ford does
not make a Focus Hybrid, but to purchase
a Prius.

U.S. car companies don't get it. The Chevy Sonic is the
answer to them. Give me a break......

 

I understand where you were coming from now, I was trying to convince you of something we agreed on, my fault, although as I started with- the original post was not entirely clear on where you were coming from with the bold text.

That said, I too am a tightwad on most other purchases, I wish more people who consider themselves analytical agreed with you on the difference between a higher upfront cost, and TCO. Especially if they are concerned about geopolitics, I want to pull my hair out when trying to convince people concerned with that how sending an extra $4K to Japan more closely aligns to what matters to them than $3K over 4 years to OPEC.

 

Hmmm....let's see. Oldwolf agrees with Seawolf. Who could of possibly thought that a pack of wolves would have the same outlook?

 

...lost a post somewhere...but tried to advise OP in 2005-2006, Consumer Reports and everyone else (although supportive of Prius) published articles ad-nauseum that the extra cost of Hybrids made no sense whatsoever with gaso at $2/gal. But that was not the correct cost basis for the future, it turned out.

 

Well, I always refer back to the Geo brand.
I dont know the whole details on how it ended,
all I know is that I had a 97 Geo Metro that easily got 50+mpg
The 97 was partly or fully made by Chevy.
I think over the next couple years, it took on a chevy emblem,
then a "chevy" engine, then off the market.

What fool in any business practice would ruin such a good thing?

An american company sucking from their knees, to get ohhh, just a few billion $ to stay afloat in a time when change is needed, and with no intentions of change.

I actually say congrats to Ford for actually acting like a big boy and digging themselves out on their own.
They actually got something going for them, but they need to snap out of this
so called ameri-gasm that everyone is on, and offer the best of the best.
Low prices, great cars, comfort, great mpg, and reliability.
They have a few on the list, but need to do waaay better.

After all, a car manufacturer spends what $10 billion to design one single car (of course alot of other models could be based on it) and not
much on analyzing if it will sell?

I also still think toyota is using the C as a marketing tool to get it out to the general public to see them as much as a civic or jetta and then that is when
everyone can say Toyota is king!
Demand is steadily increasing, and when you have one, it was the best decision that you made.

Knowing that in 10 years you can actually sell it for half of its price is truly mind blowing.

Try selling a $25k american made SUV or coupe in 10 years.
lucky to get 10%

 

Exactly so.

Moreover, the original article did not compare 100% Japanese sourced, manufactured, assembled and bought in Japan 50 mpg hybrid to 100% American sourced, manufactured, assembled and bought in the US 30 mpg vehicle.

I suspect that the majority of Prius owners, if forced to buy an alternative car, would buy a Japanese nameplate.

 

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Cultus[/ame]

 

Actually your point was made in a general criticism of people not recognizing values other than a low price and I was rebutting any suggestion that the Prius is "keeping more money in the country instead of sending it to OPEC". It isn't. It's sending less money to OPEC but sending more to Japan.

If they bought a Japanese subcompact it would be an import. But if they bought a Civic or Corolla it'd most likely have been manufactured in the USA using a significant proportion of US parts. (Our Civic was built in Ohio, for example). Both reliable cars that get reasonable mileage. A Camry would be less efficient but has a higher proportion of US-manufactured parts (the highest of any US-manufactured car, I believe).

So, if the choice is Yaris or Prius c than yes, Prius c is better for balance of payments than a Yaris but neither are good.

Aside from the balance of payments issue, the Prius is great. You don't even have to send it back to the manufacturer to get your battery replaced.

 

$8800 worth (cost to Toyota) of parts ?

Call me skeptical, but I'm ready to be proven wrong if you can.

Addendum: Domestic content list
Think of all those "american" nameplate, assembled in Mexico 25 MPG models not on this list and therefore less than 65% (trending to 50% I gather) domestic content. Do you still think they have a better balance of payments for the US than a Prius ?

I gather you have conceded the point that a dollar to Japan is considerably less expensive than a dollar to OPEC ? Did your balance of payments argument consider taxpayer dollars to "protect" foreign oil production and commerce ?

I think we can ignore manufacturer profit, unless you happen to know where it is spent.

 

An old article, but here's something:

- Cars.com

Unfortunately it's just parts from US or Canada (and we know some Toyota parts are from Canada):
Corolla 50%
Civic 70%
Camry 68% (I've seen a more recent one report saying it was the most domestic, so I don't know if they shifted more of the parts manufacture to the USA).

Ah...

Made in America: Top Cars with Most North American Parts Content - WOT on Motor Trend

Camry – 80%
Accord – 80%
Civic – 70%

Of course, that's just parts. There is also the overhead of the assembly.

 

....I try to buy American car if it competes with what I want. In the case of Prius 2006 I made exception as there was no real competition.

 

Sometimes you don't do things for money. Sometimes you do something because it is the right thing to do. Getting your life's work done without using up all the world's resources is a good thing. Trying to keep the planet a little cleaner is also a good thing. The fact is, the SUV drivers out there are paying for the gas but they are not paying the true cost of their consumption. I'm not talking about the people towing the boat or carrying 8 people to a soccer match. I'm talking about the person who uses their 3 ton vehicle to buy a 10 oz can of soup. It takes quite a few prius drivers out there just to make up for those people. Remind the "cost effective" people that encouraging car companies to innovate and bring even better solutions to the fore costs money and that each generation needs to pay to bill to leave the planet better than they found it.