Why Is This So Rare?

Interesting report. Well done overall for a "report", but I wouldn't call it a "study". I am a little disappointed they didn't perform actual vision tests on people in both lighting situations, or at least reference the results from another published vision test. Rather, it seems like they had a small survey of only 20 people who were asked which lighting had the better "perceived visibility".

Still, a good report which could easily be taken further into a more scientific study.

Bad choice of wording on my part.

Generally, wind speed must average 25 kmph (15 mph) to justify wind power. One reason wind generators are rare is because they must be properly located for optimum efficiency. Some sites are only suitable at night (down-canyon winds) or during the day (onshore winds), or in locations where the atmosphere is constrained by topography to produce a venturi effect and increase horizontal air movement.

A lot of folks will look at the 3-4 times higher installed cost, and not think of MTBF and TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). The issue of light pollution I'll ignore unless somebody wants me to bring it up

Conventional HPS and HID area lighting bulbs have a rated lifespan of 16,000-24,000 hours. Realistically, you're relamping every 2-5 years. The cost of relamping (Sending a truck and crew out) will easily exceed the initial installed cost of the HPS or HID lamp after 2-3 relamping cycles

For industrial lighting, that is why there is now a push to switch over to the new Induction lamps, which do not use electrodes in the bulb but rather use a magnetron

http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/us/ecatalog/hid/pdf/p-5456e.pdf

Induction Lighting Systems

http://www.crouse-hinds.com/catalog/PDFS/00802to00808.pdf

There are many advantages to Induction lamps that make up for their 2-3 times higher cost, compared to HPS and HID lamps. First, the much longer life which has relamping at a small fraction of the HPS and HID lamps

Second, they reliably work in all weather from -40 to extreme heat.

Third, in my eyes the most important feature, they *instantly* relight if there is a power bump. Conventional HPS and HID will lose the arc, and it can take up to 10 minutes for the lamp to cool before you can restrike it. With Induction lamps, you hit the switch and they're *instantly* on at full brightness, no warmup at all

There is now growing application for industrial LED lighting, such as

http://www.crouse-hinds.com/crousehinds/newproducts/relatedinfo/EV_Series_Brochure.pdf

They offer similar advantages to Induction lamps, with much lower TCO

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My postiton:

• LED street lights make lots of sense.
• Solar lights may make sense for some remote locations without existing power.
• Solar lights make no sense for locations with access to power.

I can't think of any scenarios were a solar powered LED light would have a lower TCO than a LED light connected to municipal power in the typical urban / suburban location.

If my city had $100K to spend upgrading existing HPS lights I would be furious if they choose to convert 22 lights to solar powered LED's instead of converting 200 to LED's that still used municipal power.

No no, I was just expounding on the topic

In your scenario, the municipality would actually be better off converting to QL induction lamps

well the website doesnt seem to have a bigger picture but its pretty much dead on.

someone said they could get something comparable that runs on $17 a month in electricity. well if we expect a 25 year lifespan on this setup that is $17 month*12 months *25 years that is $5100. throw in probably at least 3-4 battery replacements at probably $300 each so if the pole is $3500 its break even.

guessing its more than double that cost for the install but that is at today's electric prices. those costs are only going to up and up if we continue to use fossils fuels.

talked with an HR rep who was trying to get a plug in power pole installed at work to expand EV parking and also to get a light (we have a parking lot that has ZERO lighting (only have street lighting which is over 100 feet away if looking at the far corners plus some of the parking lot is in complete darkness because the building is in the way)

but to put up a pole now and run power to it would be over $20,000. over $8,000 to dig the trench to run the wiring and redo the asphalt. so kinda wondering what solution is really cheap?

More like $1 of electricity and $16 of fixed meter/account charge.

Lots of solar lights here in public spaces.
These in Victoria Square in the heart of Adelaide


Even solar trees!

Sounds like $4,000 for a solar solution with a LED slipfitter is a no brainer

ook so $20,000 was a bit optimistic... talked with person involved, have 3 contractors submitting bids. first one came in at $33,000.

In the town of Aguada, Puerto Rico we have those same light poles. They are currently installed in a mini-mall's parking lot. They converted all of the light poles to this hybrid units. I can imagine the benefits of using this type of technology in other countries that suffer from limited infra-stucture. I could see this application been used in areas where the enviroment is being preserved.

I have 180 acres of mostly rolling hills, near the Ontario border. Landline power and phone simply are not an option, the nearest poles are 25 km away. It would literally cost a fortune to bring in services

i have a friend of mine, lives right on the river less than 25 miles from the State capital AND 3000 feet from the nearest powerline. they quoted him $65,000 for a pole to his front yard

Actually, that sounds about median price. For that vacant property I have, I was quoted a shocking 6 figure amount

either way, the price is not chump change especially considering that after about 15 years of living there, he has come no where near a fraction of the install cost for providing what power he does use. he uses home made solar for hot water (done real dirt cheap) and a pair of honda generators... i told him he needs to go solar since he has a ton of space (13 acres) but he would need to clear out a bunch of trees.

after 15 years of thinning for firewood plus the pile created for his mile long driveway and house, he has hardly cleared out any real room. his house is pretty much shaded probably 80% of the time.

in summer its an awesome place to be.

Unless you live in a tropical/desert hot climate, there is no way in hell I'd want a house shaded most of the time. Up here, you site a house to face SE, to have maximum passive solar gain for winter. That alone greatly minimizes or eliminates the need for heat during the day

Proper construction then minimizes heat loss during the night, and on cloudy/stormy days. I'm now sold on insulated concrete form for walls, they truly offer many advantages

We really don't need as much electricity as we think we do. Obviously, for off-grid you're not going to use an electric dryer, hot water tank, or range: either propane, air drying, etc. Generator is nice for days when you need more power, eg running HD construction tools.

his house is well insulated but he has a major moss problem. he lives among the trees to say the least. problem is, most of the trees that need to be taken out are humongous and he is hesitant to take on the task, but all in all, a very nice place to live

Here in AZ where we typically get over 300 days of sunshine a year, there are a number of solar powered signs around town. Some are the timed school crosswalk signs that flash during school hours to get you to slow down, and others are simply the light to illuminate a sign at night. I've even seen a few that powered the radar speed signs that tell you how fast you're going and flash red if you're going over the speed limit.