1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

winter tires showing better milage than summer tires?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014.

  1. wrothgar

    wrothgar Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    77
    16
    0
    Location:
    oakville, ontario
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I know I should be able to figure out the math here, but I'm a little stuck.

    I have a Canadian 2008 Prius, bought used. The summer tires are 205 55 r16. I just put on winter tires that are old (manufactured in 2004), but have been stored for about 7 years. They have lots of tread (used for 2 or 3 winters), and are mounted on rims. The winter tires are Nokian Hakkapeliitta Q.

    This fall I have been averaging just over 4.8 l/100 km. Part way through my first tank of gas on the winter tires I'm averaging 4.7 l /100 km. The mornings have been cold lately (between 3 and -3 C) so I wasn't expecting great milage to begin with.

    I thought I'd get worse milage, but so far I haven't.

    So there are 2 possible explanations:

    a) I guess the 15" tires are slightly smaller than the stock tires, and that the current summer tires I have are slightly bigger....however, I don't know what tires the car originally came with.

    b) Maybe these Nokians are really good?

    So it has occurred to me that maybe my summer tires have caused me to underestimate my gas consumption...(to over report my L/100 km rate). Can someone explain the math to me?
     
    #1 wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014
  2. wrothgar

    wrothgar Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    77
    16
    0
    Location:
    oakville, ontario
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Oops, maybe this should be in the fuel economy forum. I'm not sure how to move it there.
     
    #2 wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014
  3. css28

    css28 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    1,566
    442
    3
    Location:
    Suburban Detroit
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    What are the actual diameter differences? Find a website that estimates diameters or revs per mile for the two different sizes.

    Are your summer tires low rolling resistance rated? It's possible that the Nokians are simply better in this department.

    [Edit: Those consumption rates are awfully close to each other. Colder temps, wind, rain, any of these can make for a bigger difference than that.]
     
    #3 css28, Nov 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  4. wrothgar

    wrothgar Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    77
    16
    0
    Location:
    oakville, ontario
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I was surprised how close they were. I thought the winter tires would be much worse.
     
    #4 wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014
  5. wrothgar

    wrothgar Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    77
    16
    0
    Location:
    oakville, ontario
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The 205 55 r16 is 78.1 inches in circumference; the 185 65 r15 is 76.8 inches. (-1.7%).

    Diameters: 24.9 inches compared to 24.5 inches. (-1.6%)
     
    #5 wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014
  6. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Tire size difference makes actual consumption same. Although actual tire size is going to be a bit different. Many winter tires actually have lower rolling resistance than normal summer tires. Some old summer tire test (Tekniikan Maailma about 10 years ago) had used Nokian Hakkepeliitta Q to test against new summer tires and Hakkapeliitta Q had smallest rolling resistance of all tires tested!

    Temperatures around 0c or 32F don’t make big difference in fuel consumption if you have pre heated car and/or trip of about 10km or 6miles or longer.
     
    #6 valde3, Nov 15, 2014
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,673
    38,212
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The snow tires are narrower. All things being equal, that'll help with rolling resistance. Then with snows having smaller outside diameter, it's changing the rate at which the odometer will accumulate, so the car will think you're going a bit further, comparing to the regular tires.

    I have similar experience. Our OEM's are 215/45R17 Michelin Pilot. Our snows are 195/65R15 Michelin XIce. Again, narrower and slightly larger OD snows. Plus the snows are rated "LRR", and the Pilots are not. With all these factors, there's little or no mpg diff between the two.
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Nov 15, 2014
  8. wrothgar

    wrothgar Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    77
    16
    0
    Location:
    oakville, ontario
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well this is good then. On my last car (Ford Focus) the winter tires made a big difference - I think I went up at least 1, maybe 2 l/100 km...I was expecting the same this year.
     
    #8 wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,105
    10,039
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Add three more to your list:
    c) wide tires (205) are less fuel efficient than narrow tires (185);
    d) new tires generally have greater rolling resistance when new than when broken in. Not knowing the comparative distances traveled by your summer and winter sets, this could be a factor;
    e) Even when broken in, different tire models have greatly different rolling resistances. Not knowing the model of your summer set, it could be an inefficient model.

    Most likely, the fuel economy difference you see is a mixture of several of these factors. Width difference will be significant. Circumference doesn't really change real fuel consumption, but shifts the odometer to create an illusion of such.
     
    #9 fuzzy1, Nov 15, 2014
  10. css28

    css28 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    1,566
    442
    3
    Location:
    Suburban Detroit
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    What (brand & model) are your summer tires?
     
    #10 css28, Nov 15, 2014
  11. wrothgar

    wrothgar Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    77
    16
    0
    Location:
    oakville, ontario
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The summer tires are Falken Sincera touring. I'm not sure how long they have been on for but they have a lot of tread left.
     
    #11 wrothgar, Nov 15, 2014
  12. css28

    css28 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    1,566
    442
    3
    Location:
    Suburban Detroit
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    As far as I can tell that's not a LRR tire.
    That doesn't make it a bad tire--just not very efficient.
     
    #12 css28, Nov 15, 2014
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)