I saw this article last night but couldn't post since PC was down. It was overall a decent article except for the "data" from idiot/moron/shill Art Spinella aka CNW.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsd43 @ May 31 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]452966[/snapback]</div>

In all fairness, I would think that most households with more than one child have either a mini van or an SUV of some kind as their 2nd car. Plus the majority of them probably just drive the car without concentrating as much on FE. So it's not too far-fetched that a family with Prius could have a combined household MPG of around 29.

In our house the gas guzzler is a 4-cylinder Accord. We can't all be like Darrel and have the Prius be our gas guzzler.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jun 1 2007, 02:25 AM) [snapback]453090[/snapback]</div>

Actually it's just poor wording. Although the wording could lead people to believe what you state. As it is, the FE of a Dodge Ram 1500 with a Hemi engine comes in at 19 HWY & 15 City.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsd43 @ May 31 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]452966[/snapback]</div>

You will find that there are many people on PriusChat who SUVs, minivans, or pickup trucks in addition to a Prius.

My wife's car is a Ford Windstar. It averages in the high teens.
My daughter drives my '96 Jetta and averages in the mid-20s. (When I drove it regularly, I averaged in the high 20s.)

When we replace the van in a couple of years, it will be with either a Highlander Hybrid or a hybrid Toyota van.

I'm not sure it's just the wording. Something seem flat-out funky with these results. Do that many households have an extra vehicle, such that they can voluntarily park one?

In both cases I assume they're dividing the household's total miles driven by its total fuel consumption. Or maybe not? An average of 27 is pretty high, even if a Ram wasn't part of the fleet.

Someone who's read the details: how did they calculate these figures?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoVaSnow @ Jun 1 2007, 06:24 AM) [snapback]453155[/snapback]</div>

Same here. We try to use the Prius instead of the Windstar whenever we can. Looking at the article you can agree with Darell about the problems of cheap gas.

Our other car is a Jeep Liberty that I hate. My wife bought it in 2002 when they were brand new and there was no stopping her (she makes her own money). Now she has come to hate it as well, due to horrible fuel economy and poor reliability. We'll be getting rid of it once the Prius is paid off in a couple of years and hopefully there's a hybrid Siena available. Anyway, she has the shorter commute so she continues to drive the Liberty. But whenever we go anywhere together or with the kids (unless we're towing something which is rare) we take the Prius.

Overall I figure we will put about 18,000 miles per year on the Prius (at about 55 mpg currently and it's been going steadily up) and 8,000 on the Liberty (at about 18 mpg on a good day). That calculates out to 327.3 gallons for the Prius and 444.4 gallons for the Liberty per year. Total annual family fuel economy of 33.7 mpg. I bet the author of that article didn't do the calculations properly.

Our "friend" Art here has had nothing but crap to say about the Prius, so this shouldn't surprise anybody!

Doesn't matter much to me if you have a Hummer parked in the garage (if it fits!). Just as long as it stays parked there.

And yes... now that others have stolen my thunder, the Prius IS our gas guzzler. My household mileage is about 263mpg. Here's my math:

4,000 miles of Prius driving on less than 80 gallons of gasoline.
11,000 miles of EV driving on sunshine
6,000 miles of bicycle riding on chips and beer

21,000 miles traveled, 80 gallons of gas used. And I'm still not very happy about the 80 gallons! I doubt that my miles per gallon of beer is as good as my gas mileage!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsd43 @ May 31 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]452966[/snapback]</div>

I used to have a link for stats on vehicles, it was interesting to look at the number of 4WD's
sold in the 70's and 80's compared to say 1992 and onwards. I have quite a bit of smug going
on, with the Mrs's Honda Civic in the mid 30's and the Prius, but counteract that with my old truck
that gets 16, but now only sees 2000 miles a year or so. So around here, the fleet average
is probably low 40's for the 25K miles we drive a year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsd43 @ May 31 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]452966[/snapback]</div>

I doubt that CNW either did the proper homework or reported the data in any straight fashion.

The first reason to doubt it is that US average fleet economy is about 20 or 21 MPG, depending on the estimate. So the fact that he's showing two datapoints well above average means that he cherrypicked (at least the) second datapoint. If the underlying sample were thin enough, there might be just a handful of families in any category, and he'd have ample opportunity to find one to fit the tale he wished to tell.

I mean, the correct statement might be "the three families in his database who owned that truck showed an average 27 mpg for all vehicles".

A more unbiased statement would read like this:
While US average fleet fuel economy is about 21 mpg, the "family fleet" fuel economy for Prius-owning families was 29 MPG based on this one survey estimate, or about 40 percent better than average.

I tried to validate this using the only survey I can get my hand on that would do it, the National Household Travel Survey. There are 65000 families reporting, but it's 2001 data and there were only 17 Prius-owning families, of which 16 fit the bill of owning both a Prius and some other car.

I'm not sure it's worth reporting the data on 17 Prius familes from 2001, as so much as changed, but FWIW, here are the data from the 2001 NHTS.
Average MPG, all cars: 21.7
Average MPG, Prius (gen 1, remember): 44.2

Both of those appear just about on the money.

Now segregate families into Prius and non-Prius families, total miles and gallons separate for the two types of familes, and divide:

Fleet mpg, non-Prius families: 21.7
Fleet mpg, Prius familes: 26.3

The increase is just over 20%. That's because these families owned an average of another 2 cars, drove slightly more miles in the other cars combined than in the Prius, and got an average of 19.7 mpg in the non-Prius vehicles.

So, that's 17 gen 1 families in 2001. Not worth much, but it was the most recent hard data I could get my hands on. The Gen 2 mpg would be higher, and it's a fair bet that the gen 1 adopters were a very different set of people from current Prius owners.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Jun 1 2007, 08:56 AM) [snapback]453269[/snapback]</div>

I didn't think Art Spinella was cheap.

Definitely a lot of gas though.

Dave m.

There should be enough Prius owners here to get a good estimate of family gas mileage. We have a Prius, currently averaging about 49.5 mpg and a 4Runner (V8), currently averaging about 17.5 mpg. Excluding my business usage, we drive about the same distance in each of the cars - around 12,000 miles per year. That gives us a family average of just under 26 mpg.

29 mpg sounds believable to me.

Mike

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stringmike @ Jun 1 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]453473[/snapback]</div>

You mean my 263 doesn't sound believable?! As usual, the fringe lunatic just gets swept under the rug...

Not at all - your 263 sounds very reasonable, except you have neglected to add the beer consumption of your bicycle (miles per pint?).

After my usual 12-mile mountain bike ride, I need a couple of beers to recuperate - let's call that 10 miles per pint. If your consumption is similar, you will need 600 pints of beer for your 6,000 annual miles. Assuming you drink a reasonable brew, we can estimate a cost of around $2 to $3 a pint, so your 6,000 miles costs you between $1,200 and $1,800. If you drove your Prius at 50 mpg, the fuel cost would be $360.

I conclude that you would need to exceed at least 50 miles per pint to justify cycling over driving the Prius - and that's neglecting the chips!

Mike

Beer is not a beverage. It is an alternative fuel.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 1 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]453308[/snapback]</div>

What surprises me is that someone with so little scientific credibility gets quoted by what I thought were reputable publications.

It's sort of funny how some people are so eager to treat controversy as truth, regardless of the scholarship behind the source.

I suspect the number of Prius households with SUVs or other gas guzzlers will decrease as time goes on and as more fuel-efficient options become available across the board. If this theory holds then the "overall average MPG" (however it is calculated) for "Prius households" should only increase with time.

My wife's legacy Xterra (2002) gets about 18mpg on a good day. We're planning to replace it with a hybrid minivan as soon as they become available. In the meantime we carpool as much as possible in the Prius and use the Xterra mostly for hauling and camping. I try to take for a spin at least once a week just to keep it from rusting...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Jun 1 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]453752[/snapback]</div>

I'm in agreement on these points!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stringmike @ Jun 1 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]453576[/snapback]</div>

All kidding aside, my bicycle "fuel" is more expensive than that for the EV or the Prius. Seriously. I don't ride to save money! I ride to make my life better. I ride because I can afford to.

I've heard people say "No fair! You would have consumed food and beer anyway." Well, yes, but not in these quantities! Plus the food I eat on the bike is more expensive than what I'd eat if I were sitting around watching TV all day. Anyway, it just goes to prove again how rediculously cheap gasoline is. Just look at the energy content per dollar! If I could ride my bike after being fueled with gasoline, my riding would cost an order of magnitude less. But I've decided to stick with my Gatorade, thankyouverymuch.

Oh, and yes... ONLY quality beer in this finely tuned engine! But when purchased in the liter mug, it is still a pretty good bargain.