Let the insane propaganda for monster-size hybrids begin.

We'll see a lot of hype pushing the perspective of SAVE as an excuse to drive a vehicle way larger actually needed. How many really need to tow more than 3,500 pounds (Class-II hitch capacity)?

The acknowledgement of how much fuel we USE instead won't happened. It will be dismissed as not important.

How long will it take before we finally get genuine competition... midsize car hybrids?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Nov 8 2007, 11:59 PM) [snapback]537114[/snapback]</div>

Well if 12.9 is huge over 16.6.... 12.9 over 17.3 would have been described as "humongous". So we are better leave it that way

This one is pretty funny also

:lol: :lol: So biased.... Of course there is no way he would have noted that even with some differences in the ratings, the Prius is still the most economical car in the NA market today and lets not forget it's a midsize

Talk about a biased article! Automatic transmissions have planetary gearsets too.

For us Americans out there,
12.9 l/100km == 18.25 mpg
16.6 l/100km == 14.17 mpg
17.6 l/100km == 13.36 mpg

So, this guy is crowing about a montrosity that gets 18.25 mpg?

Canada rate the Prius at 4.0/4.2 L/100km
Canada rate the 1.8L corolla at 7.8/5.6 L/100km
Fuel saving of Prius over Corolla = 3.8 L/100km city (where most people do their driving) and 1.4 L/100km country
This he says is a sensless effort.

Yukon Hybrid gets 12.9 L/100km while typical is 16.6 L/100km saving 3.7 L/100km, so not even as good on litres per hundred where most people do their driving and as a percentage it looks even worse!!

Prius saves 3.8 L/100km over smaller Corolla while Yukon Hybrid saves 3.7 L/100km so you can see the Yukon Hybrid is better?? :huh:

When I went to school 3.7 was less than 3.8

Now what would it save if a Yukon Hybrid driver bought a Prius instead?
.. 12.9
...-4.2
=8.7L/100km saved!! You can run 2 more Prius!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Nov 9 2007, 06:19 AM) [snapback]537164[/snapback]</div>

So on the same gas one can transport 12 people in Prii, versus maybe 7 in the Yukon. Seems like the SUV is a the senseless effort to me.

That article is a "steaming pile," in my humble opinion.

Employing the same cavalier attitude toward my gas bill, the gasoline-only version returned 17.3 L/100 km, the epitome of ozone-depleting fuel mileage. That's actually more than the 25- per-cent fuel-economy improvement GM claims for its new 2-Mode Hybrid.

In my experience, this is the only time a hybrid's performance has lived up to its manufacturer's promise.

Oh, really? Here's a comparison: my '99 conventional Civic averages 35 mpg, a respectable number. My Prius averages 50 mpg. According to my math, the Prius gets 43 percent better mileage than the Civic, which already gets good mileage.

How can this idiot claim that only the Yukon hybrid delivers? And what happened to the added complexity of the hybrid system? That doesn't apply to a Yukon? And that added complexity is manufactured by GM, not Toyota? Oh, sorry, does not compute.

Harry

Why do people try to compare things that should not be compared? People purchase vehicles for different reasons and have different criteria when shopping. Why would someone try to argue that a Hybrid Tahoe is better than a Hybrid Prius? Silly.

Personally I think it is great that they make a full size Hybrid SUV. I dont want one, but I do think that in about 10 years hybrid vehicle sales will outnumber non-hybrid vehcle sales. The expense/complexity of a hybrid system is well worth the savings in fuel and emissions.

I think the two mode technology is great.

The point many are making here is most of the Tahoe market will "save" akin to guy that takes a pass on regular double dish pizza, then down a pair of lite thin crust pizza.

And in regards to the "need" for this class of vehicles, someone rationally explain why their numbers were nothing like this in 1980?

We keep hearing about two mode's 25% MPG improvement. What about lower emission and increase in performance?

Camry HSD improved fuel economy, lowered emission (ATPZEV) and accelerate like a V6 (last gen).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 9 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]537293[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, the way I look at it, there will always be people who want to drive a big car, SUV, or a truck. These people will never drive a Corolla or Prius, because they will simply reply "I hate small cars."

They are thrilled to get a new hybrid that gets them better mileage. And to me at least they are moving in the right direction. Better a hybrid Highlander than a non-hybrid Highlander. Camry too, etc.

it feels like GM is releasing these SUV hybrids to undermine the hybrid concept itself.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(statultra @ Nov 9 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]537346[/snapback]</div>

GM really won't try very hard to make a hybrid that is much of an improvement. Heck, it isn't just GM, look at the failed Honda Accord Hybrid. That thing was a joke.

Hybrids are going to get more and more common. It is a middle step from non-hybrid to full-electric propulsion. Just as APS film was a middle step from 35mm point and shoot to digital point and shoot.

The Prius will always be the best mid-size Hybrid on the road (I hope). But I'm all for people driving a Hybrid car even it is only 25% more fuel efficient.

I still don't get it. GM is marketing these monster SUVs with 50% MPG improvement in the city. How about for towing and hauling as intended? The owners with common sense will use these vehicles for what they were designed for.... towing or hauling load but not driving in the city.

25% overall MPG improvement is ok. How about lower emission and higher performance? Does it get SULEV and V10 7.0L performance?

Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4wd achieves 59% better MPG in the city and 26% overall MPG. HH is SULEV while the gas version is ULEV. HH also performs like 4.0L V8 rather than 3.3L V6.

Looking at this comparison, 2 Mode hybrid seems inferior. While HSD is hitting 3 birds with one stone, 2 Mode is hitting just one bird with a stone.

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian here. Our second car is a 4Runner, which I use quite a bit off road to access hiking and biking trails and for occasional towing. Even medium-sized crossover vehicles wouldn't handle my occasional towing loads, which require quite a bit of mass and power. Most of my town driving is in the 4Runner, so a hybrid drivetrain to improve performance for most of my use would be quite sensible.

Of course, when the Prius is in the garage, I steal it from my wife, but most times I have to use the gas guzzler.

Look at the numbers: The 4Runner averages about 17.5 mpg, so a 25% improvement would save me over 200 gallons of gas a year over the 15,000 miles I drive. My wife only uses just over 300 gallons a year to drive her 15,000 miles. To save our family the same 200 gallons, the Prius would have to consume only 100 gallons at a rate of 150 mpg!!

Given that these SUVs and trucks are around in quite large numbers, modest improvements in them will outweigh even dramatic improvements in existing hybrids. So, as long as folks are going to buy big vehicles (for whatever reason), making them as fuel-efficient as possible makes good sense.

Mike

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stringmike @ Nov 9 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]537430[/snapback]</div>

If they don't offer it, of course we won't buy it!

By not producing it, they make the decision for us.

Watch how consumers flock to the midsize choice once it is finally available.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 9 2007, 08:02 PM) [snapback]537456[/snapback]</div>

Exactly! Patsparks has already showed us how one can drive 3 Pri and have the same consumption as one Yukon hybrid.

The problem I see with the push GM has with the full size hybrid is that it will be viewed as having your cake and eating it to. Too many people think they need a full-size SUV that rarely if ever utilize the space. Half the people I know that have a full-size SUV like Yukon/Tahoe have no kids or use for the space. The only family I knew that needed the space went for a microvan (Mazda 5) that could still fit everyone and had better mileage.

Once the masses have been weaned off of big gas guzzlers, then it is a great time to introduce the hybrid version to improve their mileage. If people are going to buy a large SUV because they need it regardless of the mileage, then it would be great for them to have a hybrid option. But again, my fear is that a large number of people will be tempted to go with the large hybrid SUV then to get a smaller more fuel efficient vehicle (even if it a conventional car). Part of me really thinks this is part of the plan for GM to continue selling gas guzzlers that have a higher profit margin. It's not about what the people need, it is about what GM wants to sell.