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Please post your UOA here to compare.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by szgabor, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    I thought maybe a thread to collect this information is useful for all. (moderator please feel free to correct me)

    Here is my first UOA from Blackstone @5100mil (see their comment on the numbers, I have seen very similar results for first time test for other GenIII)

    Most surprising is the OIL Type. I wrote that I do not know the oil type and Blackstone indicates 5W20 ... factory fills that but requires 0w20 in the manual and on the cap??!!! Pretty surprising!!!

    And of course I had big "misunderstanding" at the first oil change... invoice again shows 5w20 and when I "protested" they said that is just a misprint and they of course used the 0w20 (at the cheaper price yeah right!!!)

    Here it is.

    I am putting a table here with all the data as it comes in time..... hope this is useful...

    Mile on car 50000 40885 30128 20000 10051 5400
    1 Mile on Oil 10000 10756 10k 10k 5k 5.4k
    2 Date 06/04/16 09/17/15 05/09/15 08/30/14 10/07/13 05/10/13
    3 Oil type Syn 0w20 Syn 0w20 Syn 0w20 Syn 0w20 Syn 0w20 Syn 0w20
    4 Oil brand Toyota Toyota (Toyota) (Toyota) (Mobil 1) (Factory OEM)
    5 Make Up Oil qrt 0 0 0 0 0 0
    6 ALUMINUM 5 3 4 7 6 8
    7 CHROMIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0
    8 IRON 7 5 5 9 7 17
    9 COPPER 1 1 1 3 12 62
    10 LEAD 0 0 0 0 0 0
    11 TIN 3 0 0 0 0 0
    12 MOLYBDENUM 36 40 46 44 71 100
    13 NICKEL 0 0 0 0 0 0
    14 MANGANESE 0 0 0 0 0 2
    15 SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0
    16 TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0
    17 POTASSIUM 2 0 6 0 1 0
    18 BORON 2 7 14 20 91 2
    19 SILICON 9 8 6 17 47 206
    20 SODIUM 6 9 5 5 4 5
    21 CALCIUM 2103 2301 2712 1974 2315 1981
    22 MAGNESIUM 9 11 15 14 38 13
    23 PHOSPHORUS 513 564 762 487 823 687
    24 ZINC 616 683 876 596 916 769
    25 BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 2
    26
    27 SUS Vis @ 210°F 48.6 53 49.0 48.3 49.3 48.1
    28 cSt Vis @ 100°C 6.85 8.19 6.97 6.76 7.07 6.69
    29 Flashpoint °F 365 400 375 390 385 395
    30 Fuel % 1 <0.5 <0.5 <0.5 TR <0.5
    31 Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    32 Water % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    33 Insolubles % TR 0.3 0.1 0.3 0.4 0.4


    Updated 10/2/2015
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 szgabor, Dec 12, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
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  2. Strangelove

    Strangelove New Member

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    I'm genuinely curious. Why did you obtain this? It's in the neighborhood of the price of 2 quarts of oil. How will it help you save money and/or fuel?
     
  3. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    First, I wanted to see if it is all fine with the engine. More importantly the big "issue" with the weight of the oil ... and I was kind of vindicated on that ... according to the test Toyota filled it in its factory with 5w20 !!! So maybe that is just fine ... (not sure if synthetic or not makes any difference) I know 0w20 would be a little better with FE but the price difference btw 0w20 and 5w20 is substantial...

    Also, I have the suspicion that the service people were lying to me claiming that they use the 0w20 and used the same toyota 5w20 again. So I will test it again next time...

    You kind of right it doesn't save money in the short run. But a UOA can predict some engine problem early enough ... and also having a record for the future ... I am planning to keep this car for 10 years hopefully ...

    Considering my investment in the Prius a 20 dollar test every six months (I spend more per week on gas) makes no difference in the long run... Also if making this public helps anyone else to make a more educated decision, it worth it. ... The test is just hard data as opposed to "I think 5w20 will be just fine for this engine"

    Hope this answers your question.

    Gabor
     
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  4. JACoH

    JACoH Enjoying the mileage

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    First thing I noticed on this report is that it lists the engine as 1.5L; the 2010 should be 1.8L engine! Perhaps the testing agency made a mistake?
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Your question was about 5W-20 vs. 0W-20. My practice is to send a reference sample to the lab and get a 40C and 100C viscosity test. The ratio of viscosities gives a true measure to confirm the oil type. Since the 20W refers to the 100C viscosity, I would expect a 40C viscosity or a 'pour' test to determine if the oil is 5W or 0W.

    I use a different lab because they analyze the oil including the 40C/100C viscosity test for $20:
    R&G Laboratories, Inc.
    217 Hobbs Street, Suite 105
    Tampa, FL 33619
    I have no interest in R&G except as a repeat customer.

    I've been more interested in transaxle lubrication because all power has to pass through enroute to the wheels. I've uploaded the transaxle oil samples here. This is an overflow area for "Prius Technincal Stuff."

    It is interesting to compare and contrast the differences between this ICE and my ZVW30, 5k mile, transaxle oil sample:

    • Molybdenum, Zinc - the ICE oil is loaded but the transaxle is free. Molybdenum is a dry lubricant often used to assemble engines and zinc helps with high pressure lubrication. I suspect there is a materials issue with molybdenum that precludes its use in the transaxle ... possibly the magnets? Perhaps the stator potting compound? This is not an experiment I look forward to testing. But the transaxle should be free of the cylinder ring stress that zinc would help.
    • Calcium - the ICE oil has 20 times the amount in the transaxle.
    • Phosphorous - the ICE has 3 times the transaxle oil level.
    • Silicon - probably leaching from the sealant, just as in the transaxle.
    Near as I can tell, the straight line approximation suggests the initial transaxle oil is good for ~15,000 miles. Certainly I'll wait until reaching 20k miles before the second change. However, the microscopic examination and particle loads from R&D Labs suggests an early change may be warranted:
    The "red oxide" is often used to color silicon sealants so I don't have much concern about it. What I was more concerned about were wear particles and my initial change probably flushed must out.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Wow Bob, they really took a close look at the particles. How is this done?
     
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  7. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Yes it is a mistake perhaps partially mine (not having a very legible handwriting). I filled out the slip perhaps little bit sloppy and they just tried to fill in the rest from earlier experience (as Prius).

    I do not think that changes anything in the test or the analysis ...

    Cheers,
     
  8. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Hi Bob,

    Just a short question. I drove my GenII prius for 25000 miles (before trading it) but not even the stealership suggested to change the transaxle oil ...

    Do you know what is the "suggested" interval for this change ??

    Thanks,

    Gabor
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A little pricy, I asked for a microscopic analysis.

    Bob Wilson
     

    Attached Files:

  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The general recommendation is:

    • NHW20 - 60k miles based upon the samples tested
    • NHW11 - 30k miles based upon the samples tested
    The ZVW30 is new and I don't think anyone has tried a series of transaxle oil tests from the beginning. My hope is the 20k mile test (5k + 15K) will come in with less than a 5% loss in viscosity and low Si. This would suggest at least a 45k or larger change interval after the first one.

    I was pretty impressed by the cold-weather, roll-down test of my NHW11 after the first transaxle change. But it takes someone willing to investigate ... to measure ... before we have trustable data.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. sumguy

    sumguy Junior Member

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    are you guys buying the kits online or from auto parts store? can't remember ever seeing an oil analysis kit and amazon only has a couple types.
     
  12. Jim Calvert

    Jim Calvert New Member

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    What does the acronym UOA mean? University of Arizona? Universal Outdoor Adventure? :D
     
  13. sumguy

    sumguy Junior Member

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    they run fast and loose with the acronyms here :) My guess is Used Oil Analysis
     
  14. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    I used Blackstone Laboratories (this is not an endorsement but I found it easy an quick).

    Blackstone Labs

    I heard of them here on PriusChat, and yes you can order the kit on-line for free (little bottle and all you need to pack and mail), and then you either send a check or give them cc number.... I think you can pre-pay then you get some discount ... check the site for more details... my report was emailed to me 4-5 days after I mailed the sample, later paper copy arrived in the mail as well....

    Hope this helps.
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I thought it was User Oil Analysis but used makes more sense.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I get the small water bottles and after draining and drying, use them to hold the sample. Collect half a cup or more; put the lid on tight; double bag; and off it goes.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. triumph1

    triumph1 Member

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    3rd Oil Change

    Blackstone Labs
    Equipment Make & Model: 2008 Toyota Prius
    OIL TYPE & GRADE: Mobil 1 5w30
    Mobil 1 filter
    Make-up oil: 0
    OIL USE INTERVAL: 10,000
    Miles on unit: 37,000
    Sample Date: 11/10/2009

    We found no significant change in the latest sample from your Prius. The 10,000 mile oil changes are
    working well for you but we think you could easily be going longer on your oil. Try ~12,000 miles next time
    and check back for another look at wear. Silicon improved a little here and should continue to do so with
    each oil change. The trace of fuel that we found isn't an issue and no other harmful contaminants showed
    up. You still had plenty of active with a TBN reading of 3.5. We consider a reading of around 1.0 too low for
    extended use. All in all, a good report.




    ALUMINUM -4
    CHROMIUM -0
    IRON -14
    COPPER -2
    LEAD-0
    TIN-2
    MOLYBDENUM-84
    NICKEL-0
    MANGANESE-1
    SILVER-0
    TITANIUM-0
    POTASSIUM-2
    BORON-38
    SILICON-23
    SODIUM-5
    CALCIUM-2333
    MAGNESIUM-12
    PHOSPHORUS-666
    ZINC-809
    BARIUM-0


    cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 55.72
    SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 8.99
    Flashpoint in °F 365
    Fuel % TR
    Antifreeze % 0.0
    Water % 0.0
    Insolubles % 0.3
    TBN 3.5
    TAN
    ISO Code
     
  18. triumph1

    triumph1 Member

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    ATF Fluid

    Blackstone Labs

    31,365 miles on car and fluid
    Factory Fill
    No make up fluid





    This being the first ATF sample since the transmission was new, the higher-than-average metals
    and silicon are not surprising. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of transmission after
    about 19,600 miles on the oil. The elevated metals readings are from new parts wearing-in, as well as
    accumulated from normal use. Silicon is from sealers. The viscosity was a little light, likely from the long
    ATF use. The TAN reading of 1.6 shows the ATF was somewhat acidic. Check back after 20K miles on the next oil.




    ALUMINUM 46
    CHROMIUM 3
    IRON 103
    COPPER 12
    LEAD 1
    TIN 3
    MOLYBDENUM 1
    NICKEL 6
    MANGANESE 4
    SILVER 0
    TITANIUM 0
    POTASSIUM 1
    BORON 56
    SILICON 184
    SODIUM 3
    CALCIUM 130
    MAGNESIUM 3
    PHOSPHORUS 282
    ZINC 6
    BARIUM 3





    cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 42.7
    SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 5.02
    Flashpoint in °F 335
    Fuel %
    Antifreeze %
    Water %
    Insolubles % TR
    TBN
    TAN 1.6
    ISO Code


    I refilled with Redline D6, no noticeable change in performance.
     
  19. triumph1

    triumph1 Member

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    2nd Oil Change

    This second sample out of your Prius looks really good. The metals that were high last time have
    improved here. They were just left over from the break-in period. You've kept this oil in place 10,000 miles
    and wear is a little higher than average, but everything is properly balanced. You could try 12,000 miles next
    oil change. The oil's TBN read 3.3, so there's still active additive remaining for a longer oil change. No fuel
    found at all, compared to the 3.0% we found last time. No other contaminants found, either. This Prius is in
    very good shape. No problems found.

    Miles on oil 10,000
    Miles on Unit 27,000
    Sample Date 4/09/09
    Make-up oil 0

    Filter Purolator Pure One
    Oil: Mobil 1 5w-30

    ALUMINUM 5
    CHROMIUM 0
    IRON 14
    COPPER 2
    LEAD 0
    TIN 1
    MOLYBDENUM 41
    NICKEL 0
    MANGANESE 1
    SILVER 0
    TITANIUM 0
    POTASSIUM 2
    BORON 24
    SILICON 27
    SODIUM 6
    CALCIUM 2863
    MAGNESIUM 13
    PHOSPHORUS 619
    ZINC 732
    BARIUM 0

    SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 57.7
    cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 9.55
    Flashpoint in °F 370
    Fuel % 0.5
    Antifreeze %
    Water %
    Insolubles % 0.3
    TBN 3.3
    ISO Code
     
  20. triumph1

    triumph1 Member

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    1st Oil Change

    Blackstone Labs.

    Miles on unit:17k

    Miles on oil:15k

    Make-up oil: .5 quarts.

    Amsoil SS0 0w-30

    Amsoil filter


    You've run this oil for about 88% of this young engine's life, and that's the reason that we are still finding high
    iron, copper, and silicon. We normally expect wear-in to be past by the time you get to about 10,000 miles, but when
    you run long oil changes from the start, the process takes longer. You'll get there eventually, though you could speed
    the process along by changing the oil at 7,500 miles next time. Note fuel at 3.0%. This is more than we like to see but
    hopefully it's from rings seating. The TBN read 4.1 showing some active additive left. Check back.

    ALUMINUM 5
    CHROMIUM 0
    IRON 18
    COPPER 9
    LEAD 1
    TIN 11
    MOLYBDENUM 1
    MANGANESE 1
    NICKEL 1
    SILVER 0
    TITANIUM 0
    POTASSIUM 3
    BORON 5
    SILICON 58
    SODIUM 6
    CALCIUM 3206
    MAGNESIUM 11
    PHOSPHORUS 594
    ZINC 711
    BARIUM 1

    cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 8.85
    SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 55.3
    TBN 4.1
    Flashpoint in °F 315
    Fuel % 3.0
    Antifreeze % 0
    Insolubles 0.3