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New York City testing various hybrid truck technologies, winner will emerge huge.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Rybold, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Jayman, the LED lights look great when it's dark and there's nothing else around, but for highway patrol, when traffic is heavy and it's in the middle of the day, they need to emit a SIGNIFICANT amount of light to standout to drivers a mile away while surrounded by heavy traffic. Now, assume the patrol car or fire truck or ambulance is coming up behind those people; in their rear view mirrors. Yes, they have sirens, but when you are a mile away (on the highway) and people have their windows up and radios on, you need to grab their visual attention. Ultra-bright strobe lights are imperative. This is not about saving a few milliwatt-minutes of electricity; this is about life-death on the highway at 80mph. This is the last place we should be worrying about saving a few milliwatt-minutes.

    (I own several flashlights, as I camp outdoors a lot. I have LED, halogen and xenon flashlights and bulbs (Maglite). The LEDs are significantly less bright than the halogen and xenon bulbs) When I turn on the 4-Cell Maglites with xenons, I can "light up the night," almost like a car's headlights. With the LED, I can see maybe 15 feet. Sure, the LEDs last "forever" (I've been using an LED flashlight for about five years now and it still has the original batteries). But there's no way in hell that I would hike on a trail at night with my friends with anything less than a "spotlight" (the xenon maglite), to flash every few seconds so I know what is 100 yards ahead of me.
     
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Tell me about it, that's why I am so waiting for the Prius PHV to become available although it'll prob be 2 more years maybe more IMO. You could do almost anything on SI with a 13 mile driving range...
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I agree with most of your comments. Especially the first generation LED lightheads, were pretty bad. IMHO the best strobes, say from Whelen, are still the best for long range

    The newest properly designed LED lightbars, such as those from Whelen and Axixtech, are almost as bright as strobes, and depending on the angle, brighter. The key is proper design, the badly designed LED lightheads are barely visible in daylight

    The unmarked Critical Infrastructure emergency vehicles I have drove, also have hidden strobes in the high beam housing of the vehicle. These can ONLY be used in daytime, for obvious reasons
     
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  4. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Following up on the subject of LED lights on a vehicle, here is a very interesting related/unrelated article the just appeared in the news:

    "Cities around the country that have installed energy-efficient traffic lights are discovering a hazardous downside: The bulbs don't burn hot enough to melt snow and can become crusted over in a storm — a problem blamed for dozens of accidents and at least one death."

    Energy-efficient traffic lights can't melt snow - Yahoo! News
     
  5. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    They need to incorporate thermostatically controlled heat sources in the light housings; maybe heat tape like one uses to keep pipes from freezing. That would solve the problem, but only waste energy when the weather is cold enough to obsure the lights, not all year round.
     
  6. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Yes, good point raised about snow/ice buildup on LED traffic lights.

    It's ironic that they were promoted for labor savings by lasting longer, but you still have to send crews out to clean the snow/ice off

    You wouldn't need much of a heater to keep the lens clear, but typically most streetlights are low voltage. The wiring bundle inside the arms wouldn't handle the extra current required to run an electric defroster, so additional wiring would be needed
     
  7. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    If the wiring was able to keep the bulbs hot enough to melt the snow, it would be no different than putting in a heater (aka resistor).

    After all - an incandescent bulb is just an electric heater that also happens to generate light.

    So no wiring upgrade would be necessary unless they downsized the wiring in the arms specifically for the LED bulbs with no plans of ever using conventional bulbs.
     
  8. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    They never have to do that where I live. :D

    They converted all of the traffic lights in Sacramento County several years ago. I think some of the smaller rural towns in Northern Calif may still have some, but I don't remember the last time I saw a traffic light that wasn't the LED type.
     
  9. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    I wonder if a double-paned window, with clear antifreeze slowly circulating through it would still allow enough of the LED light to pass through.

    edit: but then again, the ethylene glycol might not bring the temp high enough to actually melt the persistent snow with wind blowing over it. Maybe this is one situation in which incandescent bulbs actually are the best solution in the winter. Perhaps cities could have "spring-summer-fall bulbs (LED)" and "winter bulbs (incandescent)"
     
  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The traffic lights work differently now, due to additional sensors for things like Transit Priority signals, emergency vehicle priority switching, etc

    With the LED's, most of the control information is now multiplexed. The traffic control is entirely solid state, no more relays.

    The result of all that, adding a resistance element to keep the lens warm would disrupt the control signals
     
  11. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    This is why our outside Christmas lights are plain old C7 incandescent bulbs. LEDs would disappear under the snow.

    Tom
     
  12. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I'm surprised you haven't disappeared under the snow/ice already, due to storms