2010 Prius Plug-In - 60 MPH EV, 13 Mile Range, 1.5 Hour Recharge

Volt's ICE do charge the battery, like the Prius. Prius' target SOC is 60% (40% floor and 80% ceiling). For the Volt, 25% is the floor and 30% is the ceiling. I guess 27.5% SOC is the target in HV mode.

The Volt's 5% SOC window may seem small but remember the pack has 12x more capacity than the Prius. So it is actually equivalent of 60% SOC swing (in reference to the Prius' HV pack).

The ICE will definitely assist in acceleration (through the generator) because the battery will be weaker at the low state of charge.

Series hybrid like the Volt are not good for continuous high output like climbing a steep long hill.

Toyota have studied the advantages and disadvantages of Series and Parallel hybrids before they decided on the Power Split (Series/Parallel) design. They summed it up very nicely back in 2003: TOYOTA: Company > Technology > What is a Hybrid System?

Volt engineers are trying to minimize the shortcomings of the series hybrid -- sort of like learning on the job and public beta testing it in CA. Please note that the Volt is basically a Series hybrid that can plugin.

 

Ken,

What does it mean? Are those mpg for 40 miles drive?

 

If you note the volt has a 150hp equivalent motor, so during the time it is in its normal mode as an electric vehicle during its first 40 miles of the day it have good acceleration and hill climbing ability for a midsize car. 150hp electric motor should do better than a gasoline engine of the same power because of the torque band. Note 40 miles per day is 15,000 miles a year, so for many drivers they will be in ev mode for the majority of the days they drive the volt. The phv prius has only 80hp in ev mode, so will have to be burning gas to get similar acceleration and hill climbing ability even in its first 12 miles. This makes the volt the better phv for climbing long hills. If you are climbing these long hills all the time at highway speeds a diesel will beat both of them.

The charge levels of the batteries are maintained to extend there life. The volt uses 50% of the capacity, the prius 40%. My guess is if the phv prius has similar lithium batteries they may allow the SOC to go lower.

GM before killing the ev1 did a great deal of beta testing. This and battery prices led to an ev with a generator for extended range. This creates a system that is more elegant. It is meant to be charged, so not plugging it in makes no sense. The problem with evs is the price and quality of one of the parts, the battery. The volt needs subsidies to compete. Eventually fuel costs and reduced battery costs should make extended range electric vehicles cost effective for the mass market. Toyota has done a wonderful job getting a very complicated and less elegant solution to perform well. I am driving their (Japanese) forth generation refinement.

I don't trust GM to do a good job on the volt, but I hope they do. The range should satisfy most ev drivers. If its successful more ev vehicles will be on the road which should provide volume for battery cost reductions and shift resources.

 

Personally, I think it means nothing.

No. The "UF method" does not contain any driving distance.
It is JP government decision to be used for comparison purpose among PHV vehicles.

Ken@Japan

 

You forgot to put the requisit asterisk after 150hp since that number is:

** subject to whether or not post bankruptcy GM keeps its head above water

** whether or not the hp number is even correct.

I mean after all, other unreliable sources state an even higher 161hp number. Every GM fan and their grandma seems to have a different hp number ... everyone but GM ... and their facts change as needed. Just a few years ago, GM mocked the Prius as a PR stunt, for example. I'd wait to see if they even build the car, before I start calculating fuel economy based on an electric moter of a car not yet in existence.
But like you mentioned . . . hope hope hope

.

 

fair enough. I think the 150** is a rounded number. It is for the pre-production car, given by gm, and subject to change according to them. The 160 figure was for the concept car which has changed a great deal for the worse IMHO getting to the pre-production design.

The prius is a better HV, but the weak motors make it a worse electric vehicle design. I have no idea if the current design of the hsd/psd etc could handle a higher power mg2, but that is what would be required to be a better plug in. Otherwise I would expect better pure electric power in the rumored 2015 prius model, if cars like the volt and leaf have a following.

CMU estimated a seven mile range was optimal for battery pack size. I think that is crazy short for the American market. The prius phv range makes sense for the Japanese markets.

 

I was referring to the Volt climbing hill in HV mode. 71 hp ICE with conversion loss will not be able to haul itself up a long uphill at highway speed. The Iconic Prius has 76 hp ICE (with majority of them going through the mechanical path) and it was reported to be able to maintain 65 mph+ on the Eisenhower Tunnel -- except the last few miles when it dropped below 60 mph. The Volt may dog at 50 mph on that I-70 stretch. 2010 Prius has 98hp ICE so it would be able to handle that route the best.

Last I heard 150 hp is available in Sport mode but 120 hp will in a normal mode for efficiency reasons. If the Volt go uphill on battery power, it may go 5-10 miles for a full charge. It is better to use gas to climb hills which is why I think HV button should be available for the Prius PHV.

Ken uncovered that the Prius PHV battery pack power was under-rated. The combined power should be around 158 hp. With PPHV being lighter, it should be faster than the Volt.

I doubt Diesel would do better than Prius in climbing very long hills. The reason is the gearing -- the RPM will rarely be ideal for most of the time.

 

you will not be able to clime mountains with Volt's 40 mile range... at full load, that 40 mile range will be significantly less.. and then you will be left with small ICE operating in non optimal conditions...

 

Or you build in a GPS with topographical map info and the car will optimize battery/ICE generator use. For what it costs today, I don't understand why they wouldn't build it in.

 

I was agreeing with you here, it just didn't come out right. Once you get rid of the ev charge, the prius will kick the volts butt. I haven't driven I-70 for a long time but, if I drove it all the time and went long distance the volt is a bad choice.

Until its released we won't know the range, but unless you are in Alaska I doubt there are many hills that would drain the batteries that fast. It will get it into HV generator mode much faster though. I agree about a switch in the prius phv in the american market.

It will be good news if Toyota allows it to run at 158 hp, that was not the indication from the slides. The batteries should allow it, but will the rest of the power train? I think they could, but any information you have is appreciated.

In your scenario, the prius would be mainly on its gas engine at full power. This is all theoretical since we haven't picked the diesel, determined weight, hp, etc.

 

GM already said they have GPS navigation and will use the ice depending on how far from home. We don't know how well it works, and whether it will do it for planned trips and recharge locations.

 

not sure how would that help exactly for Volt, as it first drives on Electric and then switches to ICE powered electric.

on the other hand, Toyota does have GPS navigation in japan that does exactly that (shows mpg depending on route you take)... and in fact, they could optimize HSD system with such info.

 

They could also install "accelerometers" (like the iPhone) to more accurately measure uphill downhill grades as you drive your daily commute, and around your community and integrate that data with the pre-existing topographic map. In fact, it could integrate data from all drivers in a central database; creating a Gaussian distribution and a much more accurate determination of road topography. Heck, they could even sell the data to Google and Bing after a year or two.

 

I'm not familiar about that.
Would you please show us any pointer for the information source?

Ken@Japan

 

I have read it in past year or so on new vehicle launches in Japan... i am looking for it now - systems are NAVI-AI SHIFT and NAVI Brake Assists, where it gets info from navigation on where you should brake and at shifting automatically based on GPS info. I am assuming they are working on making this usable for eco driving as well - if they get info from navigation for where to brake and where to shift, it seems that further developments will go towards making your drive more economical - especially with future PHEVs. I see new Sai in Japan has telematic system where it gives you points based on your eco driving compared to other drivers?
toyota.jp SAI Âb ESPO(ECO PASSPORT)

You can see they have been working on this for decade now (NAVI-SHIFT):
Science Links Japan | ITS. Development of NAVI AI-SHIFT.

Here is more info about possibilities in hybrid systems:
?????????? - ???? - Tech-On?

New Mark X has NAVI AI-SHIFT and NAVI AI-Brake asists...

 

I know NAVI AI-SHIFT and NAVI AI-Brake asists are available.
The ESPO on SAI does not have communication capability with other driver's eco information.
I still don't have any information about (shows mpg depending on route you take) you wrote.

Ken@Japan

 

Just as long as my car isn't dependent on cloud-computing. If solar wind disables satellites or if the electric grid or internet is temporarily disabled, I would like my car to be able to operate independently of the rest of the world.

 

ken - my apologies, i probably read it as part of future tech, and misunderstood, translations for japanise articles are not that good.

For instance - doesnt ESPO give you averages from other drivers when you update the info via G-Book service?

 

The ESPO has capability to send driver's mpg information to a web site.
However, drivers have to access the web site using PC or cell phone, not via G-Book on the vehicle, for comparing the mpg among drivers.
ESPO | G-BOOK.com

Ken@Japan

 

Any chance it could send info from one Prius to another Prius, like a real-time multi-player video game?