Toyota Reveals Dedicated Compact Hybrid FT-CH

Do you think the seats will be like that?

I'm all for a spartan interior.

 

thats purely concept interior... in fact, whole car is pure concept... i would expect proportions to stay the same and maybe hint of overall shape

 

well Toyota and their platofrms... half of the cars are "MC" platform ;-).

I am excited for iQ based space savings in Yaris type of vehicles... if they manage to make that affordable enough, it will trully be groundbraking. iQ has all of the Yaris powertrain options here in Europe, even the diesel which is not a small engine... and its engine compartment looks so small.

 

Oh, I see.

Found Toyota's press release about the FT-CH.
TOYOTA: News Releases > TMC Unveils Compact Hybrid Concept Car at Detroit Show

The dimensions are within Japanese compact size, 1700 mm (67 inch) width and 4700 mm (185 inch) length, same as Honda Insight-II size.
So, the platform should be compact one such as "B" platform.

Anyway, the FT-CH is prototype of the coming compact hybrid to be planned to sell in 2011.
I believe the mass production model will have smaller tires and more height than the FT-CH.

Ken@Japan

 

Wouldn't mind it a little taller. The thing is just about perfect though, right proportions, versatile interior space, sporty. Somewhat reminicent of a modern version of the 91 Civic 2 dr. hatch.

I'd much rather have this than the Honda CR-Z. Similar size, more function - extra set of seats & doors, similar - if not better performance, & most likely 30% better mpg. And if came with a plug, too much to hope for !!

 

It is really growing on me. I really like the side view, especially toward the rear -- the bubbly effect before the rear wheel.

 

i like it too. it will probably have to change a bit to meet import restrictions like the bumpers, etc..... still, its attractive. I really like it!!

 

Discussion from the other thread made me think about the handling of this car.

Chuck. raised a question if it is even possible to have a hybrid handle like a MINI yet deliver better MPG than the original Insight.

The 50 MPG Prius already got better MPG than the original two seater Insight CVT (today's 47 MPG). During the 2010 NAIAS - World Premiere FT-CH Concept speech, Jim Lentz said FT-CH is "Lighter in weight… and even more fuel-efficient than Prius".

How about the handling? The press release stated that it is "sized right to be nimble, responsive and maneuverable." There were rumors about Toyota talk with BMW to use the MINI platform in exchange for the iQ platform.

The wheelbase of a MINI is 97.1 inches. Jim Lentz also said in the speech "It (FT-CH) rides on a wheelbase…that is about 6 inches shorter than Prius". Prius has 106.3 inches wheelbase so FT-CH would have about 100 inches. Pretty close but still 3 inches longer.

Edit: Mini Cooper S Clubman has 100.3 inches wheelbase according to Wiki. Bingo!

What do you think?

 

it is built on next generation yaris platform, derived from iQ ;-).

 

On second thought, it would be too expensive to use the MINI platform. FT-CH is supposed to be cheaper than the Prius so it is unlikely.

 

I think I've posted this before but in case I haven't:

Toyota marketing's definition of 'platform' is incredibly loose. Virtually anything is quoted as having the same platform despite having a completely different wheelbase, engine mounts and suspension setup.

From an engineering perspective:


"A basic definition of a platform in automobiles, from a technical point of view, includes: underbody and suspensions (with axles) — where the underbody is made of front floor, underfloor, engine compartment and frame (reinforcement of underbody). Therefore, key mechanical components that define an automobile platform include:

• Floorpan, the collective pieces of the large sheet metal stamping that serves as the primary foundation of the monocoque, of most of the structural and mechanical components (still often informally referred to as the "chassis")
• Wheelbase, the distance between the front and rear axles
• Steering mechanism and type of power steering
• Type of front and rear suspensions
• Placement and choice of engine and other powertrain components"

From Wikipedia: Automobile platform.

Here are the key details for the cars you've listed:

Vitz/Yaris hatch: 2460mm wheelbase; KR, NZ, SZ, NR, ZR, ND engine families (sometimes more than one engine from each family)

Belta/Yaris sedan: 2550mm wheelbase; engine families not listed on Wikipedia

iQ: 2000mm wheelbase; KR, NR, ND engines

Auris/Corolla/Matrix: 2600mm wheelbase (Wikipedia has 2640mm for the Auris but this does not match Toyota.co.uk); NZ, ZZ, ZR, AZ, NR (Auris), ND engines

Scion xB/Corolla Rumion: 2600mm wheelbase; AZ, ZR, NZ engines. Might actually be a Corolla platform.

Gen 3 Prius: 2700mm wheelbase; ZR engine; torsion beam rear suspension

HS250h: 2700mm wheelbase; AZ engine; fully-independent rear suspension. May be related to Toyota Avensis, which also has a 2700mm wheelbase and fully-independent rear suspension, choice of (2) AD, AZ or (3) ZR engines.

So how can we tell what is actually the same 'platform' and what isn't? Toyota use a system of model codes which describe, in two or three letters, the basic combination of engine family and platform type. Originally the engine families and platforms were only one letter but Toyota ran out and started using two letters for each; where both engine family and platform are two letters, the middle letter of the three-letter model code changes according to some scheme that we don't really understand yet. This page (German) lists a lot of the known codes. For the cars you picked out:

Yaris/Vitz: XP
Belta: as listed, XP, but I suspect this is out-of-date or just incorrect given the wheelbase anomaly
iQ: AJ (cars are KGJ/NGJ/NUJ with KR, NR, ND engines respectively)
Auris/Corolla/Matrix: E
Scion xB is listed as XP which is correct for the 2004-2006 (NCP31)
Prius: XW
HS250h: ?
Avensis: T
(Scion tC: AT)

It's hard to tell for the US-only models because TMS USA doesn't seem to use this model code for anything externally, though it is still marked on all VIN plates.

It doesn't appear that platforms with the same last letter are necessarily related. I doubt that the iQ (AJ) has much in common with the Land Cruiser (J) or that the Aygo (AB) has much to do with the Coaster truck or bus (B)!

The platform is supposed to provide reduced costs through production of standard parts. Somehow it seems that Toyota are able to produce a very large number of different designs without incurring high costs when moving a line from one design to another. Perhaps their machinery is designed to be flexible, rather than forcing all the cars into only a few standard patterns?

If the FT-CH is based on anything current, it's probably a Belta/Yaris sedan (both have a width of 1,695mm, and the wheelbase of 2,550mm looks about right - it doesn't look like 70mm more body overhang than the Yaris hatchback). A future Yaris (and maybe FT-CH) could well be based on ideas used in the iQ, but they won't share the main stampings - the iQ's wheelbase is just too short for a proper four- or five-seater.

 

I referred Japanese Wikipedia.
Toyota-B_platform
Toyota-MC/newMC_platform

Ken@Japan

 

Dear Toyota,

I want this vehicle now. I have a 2010 Toyota Prius II with two tone custom leather interior. Since this vehicle is supposed to be cheaper than the Prius, I'll happily take the loss and do an even trade. Contact me via PM!

hah!

 

Mike you are right - and Ken is right too... Toyota does have very loose definition of platform, and this definetly gets into next generation B platform, based on space savings from iQ. What we should get in the end is Corolla sized interior in Yaris Hatchback type vehicle, and this is quite exciting!

 

Auto Express is reporting some interesting information -- not sure how accurate they are.

2010 Prius emit 89 g/km CO2 so it is about 10% more fuel efficient. Europe will get Auris hybrid also. How would FT-CH fit in the product line? Is Auris HSD bigger than FT-CH?

Read more: Toyota?s baby Prius is ready to clean up | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express

 

FYI,
A Japanese press reported on Jan 10th that the next compact hybrid, based on the FT-CH, will use smaller size NiHM battery than Prius.
Toyota to develop new HV battery pack for compact hybrid expected in 2011 launch (Japanese only)

The new battery pack is co-development by Toyota and Panasonic EV Energy.
It will have two or three less modules than Prius, but it will have the same performance and the half pack size.
It still uses NiMH technology for low cost affordable pricing.

Ken@Japan

 

That's a very exciting news, Ken.

The current Prius HV pack has 28 modules. Is the new one (for FT-CH) supposed to have 23 modules or "2 or 3" less modules. Google translate makes this confusing.

Half the size yet still still delivers 25kW will be very impressive. It should weight less than the current 99 lbs pack. This is the new advancement for NiMH from PEVE since Feb 2005. It should have code name NP3.0.

 

Frankly I think Auto Express know absolutely nothing about anything. The fuel economy figure of 120mpg works out to 2.35 L/100km assuming UK gallons, which is 60% of the Prius 3.9 L/100km. I don't see that being achievable on a regular hybrid. They've probably done their sums wrong.

All of the listed changes - 'advanced stop/start'? 'brake energy recuperation'? There really isn't much further to go on either of those with the Prius. The main problem is how much energy is lost to drag rather than actually going through the braking system, rather than efficiency of turning the energy you can capture into stored energy in the battery, and the 3G Prius already stops the engine below 46mph if conditions are right.

Losing hydraulic and mechanical weight? The only hydraulic components on a Prius are the brake lines and the shock absorbers. You do have to keep some physical backup directly controlled by the driver's foot movement to control the brakes, so no weight saving there. Air shocks? You'd probably need to add an air compressor. Unless they plan to go back to the old Mini's rubber 'hydrolastic' system!

I'm not sure what weight there is to lose, mechanically. Obviously a smaller body will be lighter than a Prius, but any attempt to use lighter materials will keep the price way up, probably making it more expensive than a Prius. They could probably get away with not fitting Air Conditioning in much of Europe, but not in the US. The heaviest part of the powertrain is, I believe, the iron cores of the motor windings - again, a lighter material is likely to be more expensive. Not fitting EGR or the exhaust heat capture system would save money and weight, but it's noteable that on the EU test the 3G Prius uses 28% less fuel than the 2G on the Urban part, but only 10% less on the Extra-Urban part, something I attribute largely to exhaust heat capture (we didn't have the coolant thermos).

Weight affects acceleration (a heavier car requires more force at the tyre contact point for the same acceleration), but doesn't affect cruising which is dominated by aerodynamic drag, which is only controlled by the frontal area, the drag coefficient and the speed. Hill climbing is affected by weight, of course, because ascending a hill raises potential energy, computed as mgh (product of mass, acceleration due to gravity, and height).

The Auris is larger than the FT-CH, coming in at 4,220mm long (FT-CH 3,895mm) 1,760mm wide (FT-CH 1,695mm) and 1,515mm high (FT-CH 1,400mm). Good packaging, as with the Prius, could give nearly as much interior room in the FT-CH, however. It's a little bigger than the Yaris which is 3,785/1,695/1,530.