Bad '01 Battery? Or not?

Since this seems to be the best site to find brilliant Prius enthusiasts...

The short question is: with error codes P3000 (HV System Failure) and C1259 (HV Regen Malfunction) is it pretty much a done deal that the battery has passed on (the dealer doing the work claims the vehicle will not even start)?

The slightly longer question is: with 7 original codes (P0300, P3191, P3006, P3029, P3030, P3000, and C1259) now reduced to the two above by dealer replacing the aux battery and HV ECU, could the dealer have failed to perform some sort of reset which would be the cause of the vehicle failing to start - or perhaps if the battery ran down (see paragraph below) did they fail to recharge it? (I say this because the service people claimed they've never come across another battery issue, yet were generally unwilling to contact anyone else regarding the matter. A chat with the service manager and a call to Toyota Customer Experience later, I am hoping they will make some calls.)

And then the longest question (or concern, rather) is: I've read many times on this forum about how the HV battery "just died" one day, as it seems did mine. Batteries don't just fall over a cliff though, they peter out slowly over time. The battery is fused to protect it from catastrophic damage, say from a failed ECU. I can imagine a situation where the battery is overcharged due to a faulty ECU. (I probably put about 5 miles on the car after the warning light showed up; and it freaked out - the high revving engine with loss of power that others have experienced - as I pulled into the dealer service lot! I don't have a frame of reference to know if that is enough driving to overcharge the battery to pieces.) I can also imagine a scenario where battery simply falls under a certain threshold that just causes the car to turn into a quivering lump of jelly. However I would have expected a more analog reaction, where the car displays some "symptoms" of the battery failing to hold a charge - say the charge-o-meter on the display not reaching 100%, and having strange car performance. These symptoms didn't happen to me and don't seem to have happened to others (I'm the original owner with 118K miles). So the issue I'm struggling with is how did the designers manage to build in virtually no tolerance or warning for waning batteries?

The last question, of course, is academic. The first two questions are more important as I'd rather know if I really need to shell out $3000 on top of my ECU for a new battery.

As a final thought to anybody else who writes in about battery problems - A Toyota press release in Sept 2008 announced MSRP for a Gen 1 battery to be $2,299. My dealer originally quoted me a $3,300 price, and I've seen others recently post even higher numbers. There's a Toyota dealer in TX selling them for $1,749. I've also found out that the MSRP for the HV ECU is around $635, not the $1100 that my dealer charged me (and apparently others). I don't really understand what is going on with this but I'm pretty disappointed with Toyota right now. I don't want anybody else to get overcharged if they don't have to. You can e-mail me if you want web addresses for any of the above information.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated,
Scott

P.S. I wasn't originally considering a battery rebuild, but I'm starting to rethink it...

 

Thank you for the responses so far.

Concerning the HV ECU vs. battery ECU - I asked the service manager for both the name and the part number of what they replaced and he said HV ECU, 89981-47063. I'll leave open a small chance that I filled in some information on my own, but I know I wanted the exact part number so I could look it up. Wouldn't that be just swell if they replaced the wrong computer?

Concerning batteries going bad - I did fail to mention that their diagnostic did show a bad module (#19 I think). So I can understand the computer recognizing a bad module, but say in Patrick's example of a 0.8 V drop on a 280 V battery, is this enough to immobilize the vehicle? (I suppose it could be if the computers say so. However this is again frustrating because I personally got only a few miles between warning lights and immobilization.)

To address statultra's response, yes, I had warning lights that wouldn't go away after the requisite "rebooting of the car" and the revving and loss of power on the way to the dealer - pretty much in their parking lot. So at this point do think my battery should be so dead that it won't start the car (or spin the engine), or should there be something I can do to get it the 2 miles from the dealer to my house? What's worse than shelling out $1500 already to have the dealer completely kill my car and then have to pay to get it towed home?

So for a rebuild, even if I have identified the bad module pair, you would recommend replacing all of them?

I am finally beginning to accept that something will have to give concerning the battery. While posting this response I came across this very useful webpage from LuciousGarage.com with a blog titled "Gen 1 Prius Battery Failure, P3006" (PriusChat won't let me post a link here) that describes exactly the symptoms I experienced along with a thorough explanation of their cause and of course with the recommendation to do a battery rebuild (and even verifying that my P3029 error is module #19).

Yes, my frustration is directed at the dealer rather than at corporate for both gross overcharging and for not getting the 'second opinion', and I am hoping that my calls to Toyota Corporate will get me some satisfaction. I am also hoping that they didn't replace the wrong computer! This book's still writing. We'll see what happens.

Scott

 

Oops, one would have to spell "LuScious" correctly to get to that website.

Scott

 

Thanks again, everybody, for their advice. I have a backup car so I can drag my feet with this to get it fixed correctly. I'm feeling(justified or not) that I'd better leave the car at the dealer and just try to acquire a cheaper "new" battery. Patrick originally posted the link for the $1749 battery from Champion Toyota in Houston, and I know a guy who thinks he might be able to get me one for a little more than that locally, but avoid the shipping cost. Also, if I pick up the supposed $200 bounty for returning the battery to Toyota, the pricing becomes... better...

This way, if they were wrong to replace the ECU, perhaps somehow with my call to Toyota Customer Experience, they'll be able to help me out. Lots of hoping I guess.

Curious though, what's the best way to acquire salvage batteries? Ebay? Call junk yards?

Any bidders for my Gen1 pack?

Scott

 

As I begin waffling back and forth in Brett Favre like fashion about rebuild vs. purchase new (I just found a local, new pack for $1700), another question came up. What do you all think would last longer - a brand new Gen 1 pack or a rebuild from a Gen 2 pack of indeterminate age? Statultra mentioned he had 18 modules - how many miles on those?
With a few hundred dollars (+ shipping) for a Gen 2 pack and perhaps a purchase of a scanner (which seems like a good idea as my car is aging) maybe I should become a DIYer after all?
Scott

 

Like Brett Favre, eventually a descision must be made. I've decided to go with the new Gen1 battery. A small part of the reason is that Toyota Customer Experience is comping me for a good portion of the repair (my 3 complaints to them were overcharging on parts, the dealer not calling for any tech support, and my "early adopter" plea). But I think the major reason was Bob Wilson's last post! "Scared Me Straight" as they say A little disappointed, since as my car gets older, I'd rather have some experience working on the car under my belt.

The additional good news is I can also get the battery for $1701 at Conicelli Toyota on Conshocken PA (nearby) - $600 off MSRP and no shipping costs.

Which brings me down to my final concern originally brought up by Peter. My 7 original codes (with paraphrased definitions) were:
P0300 (misfire)
P3191 (no start)
P3000 (H.V. system battery failure)
P3006 (Varying state of charge in Battery)
P3029 (Battery Module #19 failing)
P3030 (Disconnection between battery and traction ECU)
C1259 (H.V. regeneration malfunction)

I believe the P0300 was a lingering code from a previous "restart 3 times and error lights go away" situation (I've had a misfire error before, and warning lights that went away since then). P3000, P3006, P3029, C1259 all seem they could be directly tied to a bad battery. P3191, no start, is probably from the fact that the car fizzled out in the dealer's parking lot and never started again. But P3030 points to the traction battery ECU. The first thing the dealer ever did was replace the Hybrid Vehicle ECU, not the battery ECU. It's not obvious to my why they did that, and it's not obvious that that would resolve P3030. So now I'm concerned that they screwed up the computer thing and I'll be on the hook for another $1500. The dealer has told me repeatedly that it looked like I jump started the car backwards, but looking at these codes with a now slightly educated eye, it mostly looks like a bad battery, and some questions that they could have asked me (or even looked into the repair history of the car).

Also, I apologize for the liberal use of H.V., which I think I've seen in parts lists to refer to both "Hybrid Vehicle" and "High Voltage". I haven't seen "traction" anywhere.

Any further thoughts,

Scott