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Maximize MPG between Traffic lights using P&G

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by HelloMyPrius, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. HelloMyPrius

    HelloMyPrius New Member

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    Do we know if gen III improvement in Fuel Economy has any impact on P&G?

    For highway speed >50mph, should one even vary the speed or should they just keep a constant speed? Which gives better miles?
     
  2. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    The Gen3 has more fuel efficient engine than the Gen2.
    Also, The Gen3 engine has wider fuel efficient sweet area the the Gen2's, so Gen3 drivers don't have to stick with a certain rpm range for pulsing.

    However, Gen3 is heavier than Gen2, therefore the MPG gain is not significant.
    For more specific speed, there is the 46 mph threshold.
    Prius acts completely different animal between below and above the threshold.
    The real P&G can be done below 46 mph only.
    I know the "warp-stealth" above 46 mph, but Prius has to spin the ICE in fuel cut mode and it consumes a certain amount of electric energy (a few kW) just for ICE spinning.
    I have tried it, but the fuel gain was very limited and negligible.

    Since then, I drive highway in constant speed using cruise control, because...

    • sometimes, it is dangerous to drive at variable speed on highway. I have to watch vehicles behind me.
    • in general, a highway driving is long, so I am relax using the CC than be stressful to control accelerator and watch monitors.
    • It is more safe to watch traffic than to watch monitors.
    • the stressful driving does not give me any significant MPG gain.
    I think there is no magic method on highway driving.
    Just, slower you drive, better MPG we'll see.

    Ken@Japan
     
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  3. HelloMyPrius

    HelloMyPrius New Member

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    Ken,

    What you suggest make sense. For me, I have daily commute of 10 miles and about 4-5 miles are highway. I was wondering what I can do to maximize the fuel economy. I won't mind doing a little bit of work for 4-5 miles.:)

    I see your point that the slower gives you better fuel economy. One thing I noticed that there aren't any difference (or may be too little to notice) in fuel economy when I drove 55 mph vs. 65 mph. It seems that I get better fuel economy around 60 mph. But I haven't done a rigorous test. Any validity to that?
     
  4. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    The major enemy on highway is air drag.
    It is related to the square of the speed, so we see 1.4 times more drag at 65 mph than 55 mph.

    Please refer to following chart for Gen2 (42 mph threshold).
    It is based on the famous Wayne Brown's simulator which is well calibrated by his extensive field tests.

    Ken@Japan

    [​IMG]
     
  5. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    Nice data points, though there are many factors to consider. In the city with close spaced lights it usually is easiest to do a 1/3 pulse and 2/3 glide between lights. 1/4 pulse to 3/4 glide gives slightly more MPG but at the cost of speed toward the end of your glide-and the goodwill of those behind you.
    Short highway just keep a steady foot at whatever speed gives the highest MPG on the useless MPG graph on the dash. As ken1784 says, cruise control is great as long as you have flat highway, otherwise use your foot.
    Doing that I would expect you, if you pump up your tires a bunch, to break some mid 60 tanks during the summer.

    Wayne
     
  6. HelloMyPrius

    HelloMyPrius New Member

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    Ken, I never got the type of highway MPG as shown on the chart. I wonder what do I need to do. I am getting 50 MPG to 55 MPG driving 55 to 60 MPH. Is it because my car has still only 1800 miles on it? When do people see the MPG improve as the car breaks in?
     
  7. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I believe you will see some improvement after 5000 miles odometer.

    However, the big impact is ambient temperature and A/C use.
    Please note that the condition of the chart is "Temp: 88 F -- About as hot as one can do without A/C & windows up for several hours".

    We see approx 6% mpg down vs 10F lower temperature without A/C.
    The A/C (heater in winter/cooler in summer) consumes certain amount of energy other than the driving energy, so there is a certain amount of mpg impact by the A/C usage.

    I think 55 mpg at 60 mph in winter is not bad.
    You will see 60 mpg at 60 mph rule in warm weather.

    Ken@Japan
     
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  8. HelloMyPrius

    HelloMyPrius New Member

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    Is the MPG graph on the dash accurate? Why is it useless?
     
  9. vday

    vday Member

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    I try to use EV as much as possible and when available.
    Am I doing something wrong?:(
    On the highway I use the cruise whenever possible
     
  10. HelloMyPrius

    HelloMyPrius New Member

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    EV mode may temprarily boost your MPG. But the electricity you use will eventually need to be replace. It will go through conversion twice. ICE generate electricity to recharge battery. Electric motor then use battery charge to drive the car. The two conversion will make the system less efficient if you just ICE to drive the car. This is according to what I read. Some people here are more knowledgeable and probably can shed more lights.
     
  11. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    You stated it very well, HMP.
    vday, there are many threads here and at cleanmpg concerning this car. You should become adept at pulse & glide and the reasons it is so effective. It basically puts the excess energy of the ICE into kinetic energy instead of electricity, avoiding the conversion to and from electricity.