1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

MPG study

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by splendid, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi all,

    Just want to run my MPS #s by you to get some (intelligent :)) feedback.

    I have attached my MPG spreadsheet for your study. While I dont list the ambient temps, they have been on the colder side here in Orlando, between 45 and 70 for the highs. I'd guess the avg temp while driving has been 60F.

    Just bought the car. It came with new tires but they are an off-brand, likely the cheapest available to the dealer I bought the car from. I set the pressure to 42/40 psi. Battery voltage was 12.00V after sitting overnight. I have not used the A/C or headlights. I drive the speed limit, accelerating slowly. I coast down a lot. I think I drive the way I should in order to maximize MPG without using the PnG or some other inappropriate way of driving the streets of Orlando. All flat roads here. The display speed and distance traveled match 2 GPSs I have within 1% or less. Most of my trips logged here are my daily commute of 45 miles each way, with about 35% of that being at 65mph.

    So, is my real MPG of 41.0 (from fill-ups) normal? Seems to be a bit lower than I expect after reading endlessly on this site. Maybe 45-48 should be right? The 1000 miles of highway at 72 mph gave a 40.5 MPG readout. Taking that out of the data, I guess I'd have about 43 MPG.

    Also, a 9% disagreement with the display seems high, it gives 44.8. Is this normal? Didnt see this discussed explicitly yet. I'm sure its just an honest mistake on Toyota's part.;)

    Also attached is a quick study I did of Display MPG vs. Speed with a 70F ambient over about 2 flat miles for each data point.

    Enjoy!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You have a Gen II Prius, which has a fuel bladder. The bladder causes a lot of variability in fuel tank capacity, which means that manual mileage calculations are fairly useless unless done over a large number of tank-fulls. For example, say the variation is about three gallons and your typical fill up is about eight gallons. That's an error of 37.5%. At ten tank-fulls the uncertainty is still three gallons, but now you have filled the tank with 80 gallons of fuel. The error is now 3.75%.

    Typically the MFD on a Gen II is withing 2% of the real mileage, and is generally a bit optimistic. Tires will also potentially introduce some error.

    Tom
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for the thoughts Tom. I thought that the 50 gals so far would be enough to factor out much of the bladder volume variation--maybe not. Just remembered, the tires are "Doral" brand, whatever that is. Never heard of them. They will probably last a long time so that I cant get the nice GoodYear's (I should be using) anytime soon.

    Yeah, the bladder stinks. The most I've been able to put into the tank was 8.6 gals--about 25 miles after the last pip started blinking.
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You might want to look up the rolling circumference of your tires. If it is different than the OEMs you will see some error in mileage from that.

    Tom
     
  5. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    But since the displayed speed checked out OK vs. the GPSs, I gave up on it.
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    The speedometer and odometer do not work from the same calibration. Generally speedometers are biased slightly high with OEM tires, while odometers are set to be accurate.

    Tom
     
  7. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    1,244
    243
    0
    Location:
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Some thoughts:

    1) If by coast down you mean take your foot off the gas, that is costing you compared to gliding, which requires a little throttle to remove regen. Regen is good, but conserving momentum is significantly better.

    2) Your 12V should read 12.4 to 12.8V after resting vs your 12.0V according to a recent thread on that subject. You might be putting too much energy into charging a dying 12V. If so, that is hurting mpg.

    3) I think brakes are bad; after all, they reduce my mpg every time I use them. Still, I do use them virtually every time I drive. So they are not all bad. Conversely, I think P&G is good since it helps my mpg. I use it heavily, but not so as to interfere with traffic. When taking off from a light or stop sign, that is a pulse. If you then glide down instead of coast down into the next light, that means you are using P&G. If you perfect that a bit it will serve you well. But do keep other drivers in mind by all means.

    4) Overall, your results are not horrible, but I think there is a chance the battery or a dirty sensor or whatever is holding the car down. There is always more mpg from improving one's technique. If your steady state mpg's correspond to established norms then it is all in driver and conditions.

    5) My mpg corresponds to weather, wind, etc like everyone's, but another big factor for me is short commutes. You did not address that one. For me, if I burn a tank in a day, it is all about the conditions and how I choose to drive. If a tank lasts 6 weeks, it is gonna stink no matter what.

    good luck.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for the comments.

    Most of my trips logged here are my daily commute of 45 miles each way, with about 35% of that being at 65mph, the rest at 40 mph avg I guess.
     
  9. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    1,244
    243
    0
    Location:
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hopefully, there is something mechanical on the car, because it does not sound like you drive bad, and your commute should allow you to really rock the mpgs. Either way, keep working on technique, too.

    12V issue, alignment, brakes dragging, clean/replace sensors (MAF, etc)...

    what oil are you running? is it overfilled?

    Just some thoughts.
    good luck
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Filled to MAX, not over. Not synthetic.

    What other sensor could be cleaned besides the MAF?

    Also, have not heard of the brakes dragging so far. I'll search. I do get a slight squeeking sometimes from the front.

    Off the get some MAF sensor cleaner...
     
  11. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    1,244
    243
    0
    Location:
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Try PMing Patrick Wong or some other DIY guru here to ask them to look at this thread and give you some guidance. Relative to them, I am all hat and no cattle, as they say here in Kansas about wanna be cowboys...
     
  12. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I cleaned the MAF sensor. It was not visibly dirty in any way. I'll see what that does.


    Also checked the battery voltage again. Got 12.35 this time. Last time it was 12.0. Not sure why the difference. Same time since it had run--after sitting overnight.

    I'll check the rear brakes next.
     
  13. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I adjusted the rear brakes. They were not really dragging much at all. I did however notice that the right rear bearings are going. They do not move as easily as they should and there is a slight notchy felling to them. With only 33k miles I did not expect this from Toyota. Even though I am past the 3/36 warranty, I'll still try the dealer to see if they will replace it. Bet they wont though.
     
  14. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    816
    182
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You mentioned that the car had new tires but off brand. What are they exactly? Even good new tires kill the MPGs for a few thousand miles. Alignment is certainly worth checking - most tire places do a check for free - otherwise you could be trashing those new tires before their time.

    - D
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Doral sdl65 or something like that. I did look them up and found they are cheap but have decent temp and traction numbers. I'll get the alignment checked but already know they will tell
    me it is needed. That's what they do.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
     
  16. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    OK, so now I got a 9.75V reading after the car sat in ON with the radio on for about 45 mins. After I started the engine it goes to 13.75V, then to 12.4 after the ignition has been turned OFF for 5 mins.

    Dying 12V battery?
     
  17. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    816
    182
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    45 mins on ACC playing the radio is a pretty heavy drain (and hard to quantify) so it's tough to say if that's indicative of a weak 12V battery. Do you have a battery minder or charger of some kind? Might be best to give it a full refresh charge and then measure it the next day with the car off. Then again after a week of normal driving (and an overnight 'rest'). See what the difference is like.

    - D
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Had another reading of ~10V after just sitting overnight.

    Nipping this in the bud.

    Just ordered the Optima battery and kit. I'll post MPG results after I get enough data.
     
  19. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    816
    182
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Heh, yeah that's pretty shot. Looking forward to reports on the Optima.

    - D
     
  20. splendid

    splendid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    New Optima yellow is in. Give me a week at least to report back on mpgs.