1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Colorado tax credit for PHEVs

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by linuxpenguin, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    352
    182
    4
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Hi Guys,

    Since I was investigating other tax credit bills, I decided I might as well investigate the Colorado tax credit for our frozen friends out...in Colorado... Here's what I found:

    Link to the original document (house bill 1331):
    http://www.leg.state.co.us/Clics/CL...3E26BF87257559007853C8?Open&file=1331_enr.pdf

    The original house bill defines a qualified plugin hybrid vehicle as:

    "A PLUG-IN HYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLE CONVERSION THAT
    PROVIDES AN INCREASE IN CITY FUEL ECONOMY OF SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT OR MORE AS COMPARED TO A COMPARABLE NONHYBRID VERSION VEHICLE FOR A MINIMUM OF TWENTY MILES AND THAT IS CAPABLE OF RECHARGING ITS BATTERY FROM AN ON-BOARD GENERATION SOURCE AND AN OFF-BOARD ELECTRICITY SOURCE. A VEHICLE SHALL BE COMPARABLE IF IT IS THE SAME MODEL YEAR AND THE SAME VEHICLE CLASS AS ESTABLISHED BY THE UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY AND IS COMPARABLE
    IN WEIGHT, SIZE, AND USE. FUEL ECONOMY COMPARISONS SHALL BE MADE USING CITY FUEL ECONOMY STANDARDS IN A MANNER THAT IS SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO THE MANNER IN WHICH CITY FUEL ECONOMY IS MEASURED IN ACCORDANCE WITH PROCEDURES SET FORTH IN 40 CFR 600, AS IN EFFECT ON AUGUST 8, 2005."

    (caplocks are courtesy of the Colorado house of representatives, not me).

    In other words, it requires the conversion to get an average 86 MPG (48 + 75% of 48 [36] = 86 MPG) over 20 miles (20 miles of range for the battery pack) on a federally established (Environmental Protection Agency) course (as defined in 40 CFR 600 which I believe to be the UDDS urban test driving cycle--the accepted standard for fuel mileage calculation).

    The EPA test is conducted by a trained driver who follows a pre-calculated speed line and does not use any sort of hyper-mileing tricks or EV modes (unless the manufacturer clears said EV mode with California Air and Resource Board for emissions reduction--Stock OEM ev mode by the way does not pass unless the gasoline engine warms up first).

    Additionally, I believe the bill also calls for CARB compliance [see page 17 of PDF] for qualification (that is, emissions standards to verify SULEV emissions). This is the same as all the other tax credit requirements.

    So I would urge caution to Colorado people looking to buy a conversion and expecting to get the 85% tax credit. Any system looking for qualification needs to have proof of certification by a national laboratory to these established standards. Just in case you were wondering, these tests aren't cheap...

    Andrew
     
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Bummer... Well could you not just tie the EV mode switch to ground like the button would do, except have it for when the test starts. When/If EV dies, then the ICE kicks in near the end, and it should be ok?

    Well we don't do it for the price savings anyways right? :)
     
  3. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    352
    182
    4
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Heh, no you can't unfortunately. The entire kit has to be certified first by a government approved laboratory as it is installed. It's an expense to the kit maker and marks the end of changes to the system (batteries, converter, integration, etc). Everything has to meet strict standards put out to ensure that the system cannot increase emissions on the vehicle. Frankly speaking, many conversion kits /will/ increase emissions as they are configured currently (it's how they get better mileage).

    Hmmm...it also must increase mileage by at least 36 MPG in government operated tests. Without EV mode some lower end conversion kits probably won't meet this requirement.

    Nope, you're right we don't do it for price savings (and hopefully nobody has at this point). At today's prices, the average Prius driver would spend about $6,250 on gasoline over 100,000 miles. If you buy a conversion kit for even a fourth of that you'll never see a profit (esp after you add in the cost of electricity to charge it) unless gasoline doubles in cost (which hey, I believe will happen--the question is will it happen before 100,000 miles).

    No, we do it for other reasons =).

    Andrew
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Oh, I am definately with you on the gas prices. And I welcome it too. Personally I feel the prices are way too low, and should be artificially increased by taxes to then support more efficient vehicle research and deployment. The huge demand for hybrids and alternative fuel sources skyrocketed just when gas prices went on around $4/gal. Imagine what will happen when it gets to $8/gal or more. I firmly believe it will get there soon and go much higher too if you factor in China and India starting to drive like Americans.

    Anyways, thanks for the info. I am currently researching a PHEV conversion, and want to make my own. I know, I know, re-re-re-inventing the wheel. But it is what I do lol.
     
  5. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    352
    182
    4
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius

    An ambitious goal =). If you are doing it yourself I would recommend either:

    A: The CalCar's PriusPlus method since this is the most friendly to DIYers (PriusPlus - EAA-PHEV). It's relatively simple in concept and allows for a range of battery chemistry. PM me if you want more details on batteries I would recommend.

    or

    B: The "BMS+" Hybrid-Interfaces way (CAN-view index) which uses stock NiMH battery packs in parallel to recharge the main OEM battery. This method is a little more involved and probably a bit more costly considering what you need for it but you'll find people here who can help you.

    Both A & B will give you enough battery power to do electric drive and you so you should see a marked improvement in mileage.

    Andrew
     
  6. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I dont want to clutter this thread too much, but I plan on using LiFePO4 cells with an approach overall similar to the Enginer system (I think) and also the BMS+ system (again I think). I need more research into it.

    But basically I plan to make the battery pack using 3.3v cells to get something around 52.8v per block (16 cell blocks). Then using a DC-DC boost circuit to output the 240v required to juice up the OEM pack. I plan on having individual charging and monitoring circuitry for each cell, eliminating the (IMHO) poor design of the Enginer systems that require bad balancing. By monitoring all cells individually I can charge each cell to its pack-balanced maximum, and discharge somewhat equally as well. Hopefully intercept the CAN messages and spoof out false charge states to keep in EV mode. I also plan on making a VGA/DVI to GVIF converter to interface with the 2006's digital video input so I do not need separate screens. All this would be reported over a USB connection to a CarPC. I do a lot of short trips (delivering), and staying in EV mode the whole time is extremely beneficial (and cool)! :D
     
  7. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    352
    182
    4
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Wow. Yes that does sound ambitious (and very expensive unfortunately), but best of luck to you!

    Andrew