Is the Prius better for the environment

Yes, with all my huffing and puffing I probably should be compared to a medium size pickup regarding emissions. Of course after a bowl of beans and ham I would move up to the full size Dodge Ram with V8.

 

I tried to put it in the Wikipedia entry on the Prius, but there were a few people who resolutely blocked any mention of the Dust to Dust study, thinking it was better to let it quietly die (if that ever happens on the internet) rather than rationally lay out the facts, or even make a reference to another page that does lay it out. I haven't visited the page in recent months.

Just for the record, the orginal 2006 Dust-to-dust study by the private CNW Marketing company found (by their highly suspect numbers) that a Hummer H2 and some other large SUVs had a lower energy cost, per mile driven over the estimated life of the vehicle, than the Prius (2005 model-year vehicles). The full-size Hummer did not beat the Prius. The next year, their quietly released update for the 2006 model year vehicles showed the Prius now outperformed the large SUVs. Perhaps due to economies of scale, or maybe they realized the average Prius was going to be driven more than their initial estimate of 109,000 miles in its lifetime. They didn't release details so it's hard to tell why they reversed themselves. But this update never got the same publicity that the original report did.

The Sudbury thing was almost laughable except for all the people that took it seriously.

 

Not familiar with the cervello, but you could put a VeloKit on the trike to turn it into a cheap velomobile (enclosed recumbent 3-wheeled bike). That's what I plan to do someday and that has a considerably smaller footprint than a gas and/or electric vehicle by any measurement (manufacturing cost, CO2 emissions, ozone, acid rain, power plant emissions, etc.).

If you pace yourself, depending on the temperature and the distance, you can arrive and clean up with a minimum of fuss. I don't have a shower at my workplace, but it's never been a problem. I don't sweat while I'm on the bike, it's only when I stop and the wind stops, then there's a couple minutes you need to manage a bit for optimum hygiene.

 

This reminded me of an eariler chart:

I took the CNW data for Toyota models and plotted:

• vehicle life-time years
• vehicle life-time miles
• miles per year

The chart is not the easiest to understand but here it is:

His data shows:

1. Toyota Land Cruiser - lasts 50% longer than the next vehicle. Apparently they never die.
2. 1.5L Toyota Echo drives more miles than 1.5L Prius - we had both a 2001 Echo and 2003 Prius. The Echo got 32 MPG and the Prius 52 MPG (see signature.) We sold the 1.5L Echo, ~3k miles/year, and still have the 1.5L Prius, ~20k miles/year.
3. Toyota Highlander gas lasts longer but drives less than Highlander Hybrid - imagine you have one of each ... CNW Marketing claims you will keep the hybrid parked and use that the more expensive to operate gasser Highlander.

CNW Marketing claims that 'hybrids are a style.' It is part of the "green" halo claims that GM uses to justify their lack Lutzer hybrids.

Bob Wilson

 

I was joking about that. My cervelo is a tri-bike, made for triathlons and time trials. Everything is as light and aerodynamic as possible. The riding position is comfortable once you get used to it, with the seat forward and half your weight on aero bars. This keeps the rider as aerodynamic as possible and saves some of the legs a run afterward. Add on very thin low rolling resistance tires and aero wheels (my race wheels are hed3 which have 3 blades of carbon fiber instead of spokes). The thing will coast forever, but all the technology doesn't make that much of a difference under 20mph. It needs smooth pavement, can't carry much, and isn't great on curves and downhills. The cervelo is just for fun for me (though I know one woman that makes money on hers). Definitely those of you, using trikes or any bikes for commuting are doing better for the environment.

Driving fewer miles is better for the environment. Prius is the next best thing.

 

People always seem to forget other pollutants that come out of cars besides CO2. The Prius is extremely clean in all types of emissions. The Jetta TDI, as an example, emits less CO2 but way more of all the other pollutants measured in Cailfornia. Tier 5 Bin 2 is actually pretty damn dirty compared to AT-PZEV (the Prius) ... the only reason why TDI cars can even be sold here this year is because of the new clean Diesel formulation, and even then the TDI's only just get by without using Urea injection as all other diesels needs in California to be clean enough to be sold here.

 

Jetta TDI emits way more CO2 as well

Yep, regarding the dirtiness of so called "clean diesels" but at the same time, the Jetta TDI emits way more CO2 than the Prius since is has poorer fuel economy and diesel has a higher carbon content. The amounts per gallons of diesel and gasoline are listed at Emission Facts: Average Carbon Dioxide Emissions Resulting from Gasoline and Diesel Fuel | US EPA.

Per Side-by-Side Comparison, if you pick a 2010 VW Jetta TDI automatic (S6), I believe that's DSG vs. the 2010 Prius, for the same amount of driving, the Jetta TDI emits 6.2 tons of CO2/year vs. 3.7 tons for the Prius.

 

Interesting! I was only going off what TDI advocates claim .... I see at least in tailpipe emissions it's greater.

Looking through several clean cars, the 2010 Prius is by far the least polluting when it comes to tailpipe emissions. There are other cars that get a 9.5 out of 10 on pollution index, (any car sold in California as PZEV) which are cars like the Impreza, Focus, Accord and some others ... But like the Focus puts out 6.6 tons/yr of CO2.... So in reality, the Ford Focus is just slightly worse in CO2 than the Jetta TDI, but much better in other pollutants! And then a Honda Fit puts out less CO2/yr than the Jetta and the same score in pollution index.

2010 Prius (California version rated as AT-PZEV): 3.7 tons of CO2/yr, 9.5 out of 10 for EPA Air Pollution Score
2010 Jetta TDI DSG (California Versions rated as ULEV II): 6.2 tons of CO2/yr, 7 out of 10 EPA Air Pollution Score
2010 BMW 335d: 7.8 tons (no other data)
2010 Honda Civic CNG (CA Version SULEV II): 5.4 tons of CO2/yr, 9.5 out of 10 score
2010 Honda Insight (CA Versions SULEV II): 4.5 tons/yr, 9.5 out of 10
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid (CA Version SULEV II): 4.7 tons yr, 9.5 out of 10
2010 Ford Transit Connect (Van, Diesel): 8.0 tons/yr, 7 out of 10
2010 Ford Focus (CA PZEV version): 6.6 tons.yr, 9.5 out of 10
2010 Nissan Altima Hybrid (CA only): 5.4 tons/yr, 9.5 out of 10

 

Where does a full size Ford, Chevy or Toyota pick-up fall in this same comparison?

 

Are the real full-size pickups even rated on this scale?

 

2010 Chevy Silverado 2wd 5.3L: 10.8 tons CO2/yr, 6 out of 10 (Bin 5)

2010 Ford F150 Flex Fuel 5.4L: 11.4 tons CO2/yr, 6 out of 10 (Bin 5 and Bin 4)

2010 Toyota Tundra 5.7L: 11.4 tons CO2/yr, 6 out of 10 (Bin 5 and ULEV II)

 

Yes but some trucks, especially diesels do not even rank. When they listed diesel trucks I checked my roomate's 2006 GMC ext.cab 2500 series Duramax and it was listed as less than 1 out of 10 for emissions. lol

 

If the vehicle has a GVWR of >8500 lbs. they're exempt from fuel economy testing and thus any CO2 emission calculation since CO2 emissions are directly proportional to fuel consumption.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/which_tested.shtml has examples of some exempt vehicles.

 

So the F250 is exempt.

Where I came from, the F150 wasn't big enough to be a 'real' truck. At that time, at least.

 

Yep, and currently, exempt vehicles don't count against the manufacturer's CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) numbers since there isn't even a fuel economy test result. IIRC, a bill was passed to change that but I don't know when that goes into effect.

 

On a bike a guy has a few more options. I am working on a design to utilize this methane gas to feed an additional power source to help me get up some of these hills around here. My major hurdles are getting production on demand and generating an adequate supply. If production ramps up I am going to need a muffler!

 

Do you remember The Simpsons episode with the "Canyon Arrow" (a huge Hummer-like SUV). When asked about mileage, the owner said: "1 highway, 0 city". I love it!

Tom

 

And some air freshener trees to hang around your neck!

Yes! Hahaha