Is this cut throat move too cut throat?

Well that's kind of the key. In this case from the OP's P.O.V. at the very least what he was signing and what he was handing a check over for, wasn't explained well enough.

I wouldn't have any problem with putting down a good faith deposit with the understanding that a dealership will locate a specific car for me within a specific timeframe. But when a dealership is taking money and then handing you back forms that you have signed with VIN numbers blacked out and phrases added then that borders on fraudelent misrepresentation.

I know it's your business and I don't hate or mistrust all salesmen and dealerships but you should be upset to hear stories like this. It's the one bad apple that makes you all look bad. I know there are many people that have found good dealerships and dealt with ethical and honest sales people. When it comes to auto's, it's one of the biggest purchases people make, both financially and often emotionally, as people "bond" with their cars. But I've never really understood why in our culture suddenly with automobiles the uniform practices of retail commerce seem to get thrown out the window in exchange for a camel trader, open bazzar, buyer beware approach by many (not all) dealerships and salespeople.

It's sad to me, when I hear the enthusiasm most people in this forum have for The Prius, but then hear how "The Purchase" is often a horrible experience. It should be profitable to the dealership, profitable to Toyota and a great experience for the buyer.

You sound like an ethical salesperson working for an ethical dealership and I know many do exist...so I don't offer my personal opinion as commentary on you or even dealerships as a whole. But the sad thing in this thread is how many responses seem to be saying "Yep, that's typical". If it is? Or even if people perceive that it is, then perhaps that's an area Toyota can try to improve. For most people the very first connection and impression of Toyota as a company they are going to get, is the treatment they perceive they are getting on the lot and at the dealership.

There is something wrong when you have people enthusiastic enough about the product to be a member of Prius Chat, but simultaneously not having faith in their local dealership sales or service department.

 

That is an oxymoron!!!!!

The dealer that sold me my Prius tried every trick in the book. They made me stay late claiming they were doing paper work. Then they tried to sell me every option in the world. I refused everything. I told them I am willing to sit here until midnight and play their foolish games.

 

Car sales people are not bad people. They are just trained to do bad things and they are told it really helps the customer.

Selling a car on a monthly payment does not benefit the customer. The dealer takes a 4 year loan and pushes it out to 7 years to meet a customer’s target payment. This also lets them add more profit dollars.

Selling rust guard, special paint coating, and the other 25 worthless things to help the customer is wrong.

Selling an extended warranty on the most reliable care in the world is wrong. Extended warranties are like going to Vegas. The house always wins.

One of the bigger scams is free oil changes. They are not really free. They will charge you any overage prices. Example synthetic oil is a surcharge. When you are getting your so called free oil change they will try to sell you everything in the book. New wipers, new oil filter, trans flush, radiator flush, ect..

Do not forget about the 5K, 10K, 20K, 25K, ect.. scheduled maintenance. 99% of it is checking for things like tire pressure and fluid levels. Then they charge you $500.

I can go on and on.

 

Jim, do you even know what Bait and Switch is?!

Classic Bait and Switch is what created the laws that govern advertising in dealerships in this way: If you have a vehicle for sale, on sale, you have to list the specific VIN and if the car is new, it has to be in NEW condition, never registered.
First off, if you list qualified cars "all at this price" then you have to have at least 5 vehicles. If you list "all Prius with MSRPs of $23,750 are on special for $22,999" then there have to be at least 5 for sale to do this type of ad.
The next rule is that VIN#'s on specific ad cars have to be listed in the ad. If you have a payment ad like a lease at $249 a month, and the qualifying car is a specific car you have 1 of, you have to say "1 at this price" and list the VIN# and terms.

That is the BAIT.

The switch comes when you tell someone "we don't have that car" when you do, and stick then in a different car WHILE YOU HAVE the ad car - but are refusing to sell it. This is why a car on special is either SOLD or for sale... you cannot hold ad cars, dealer trade ad cars, or save it while you are trying to get someone financed. If it's on ad, it's for sale to anyone who wants it UNLESS you have a signed contract and a viable deal.

If I came in for the "ad car" on a Friday morning, let's say some loss leader a dealer had listed... and I was told the car was gone... and bought a different higher priced car instead of the ad car (which baited me in) and then discovered they'd been holding an ad car (that I was not allowed to buy!) for someone who never showed up, that would be me catching them in a bait and switch violation.

Taking a deposit on a specific car (let's say a blue IV with sunroof, bisque interior, and mats) and having them not be 100% certain of the vin# because they were not sure where the car was coming from in the next 2 days is not bait and switch. It would only be bait/switch if the car that showed up was NOT what he wanted, ie a blue with charcoal interior. The VIN# is not important - the CAR is. And, what's most important was his trust of the dealership. I don't know what his experience was there at the dealer but for some reason, either he lost faith in their ability to come up with the car in the next few days OR someone(s) here gave him enough doubt that their deposit to find the car was in question.

Anyway, this was about the bait and switch issue, which wasn't what happened at all.

 

I have sold Toyotas for pretty much 30 years.
Your post is offensive to me because it says (to me) that buyers are sheep who will do whatever their salesman want? Or, the finance people suggest?
I buy cars too. Many in my 30+ years and I buy what makes sense. I bought the 100K mile warranty on my 2007 Prius because it was a solid, safe insurance policy for the car - like having major medical on my car, who can't tell me when it's sick and not feeling right till it's broken. I have bought GAP when the deal warranted it. And, yes, I will tell my clients when GAP or Warranty or prepaid maintenance is a waste of their money. If they elect to go ahead and take it anyway in finance because the value was seen, so be it.
I just can't sit here and say 0 while you act as if buyers don't have any common sense or rationale to make their own decisions.

Di

 

Abit of hyperbole don't you think, a slight exaggeration ( $500 ) ?

This is another issue with communication. When buyers agree to do business here they are advised on the spot, before the purchase is completed, that dino-oil changes are FREE for LIFE, no strings attached. Syn-oil changes cost $18 extra. Oil filters and labor are included FREE for LIFE.

The rest of the services are subject to what the buyer wants to have done.

There's a reason for our phenomenal growth here in this market....communication.

 

The customer is at a vulnerable place in their life. A vehicle is the second largest purchase most people make. Dealers prey on the vulnerability.

 

How much does your dealer charge for a 25K mile scheduled maintenance. I bet it is around $500. 98% of it is checking things. Tire tread, radiator fluid, brake pads.

 

That is called double talk. When you make claims that it’s free no strings attached. Then you take your Prius in expecting it to be free and it cost $18 for special oil. Then they tell you your air filter should be replaced every 5,000 miles, and your wipers are looking bad. All dealers pull this scam. It’s in their nature to make a buck any way they can.

 

Actually I believe he was trying to make a point based on the thought that you would have some understanding of what he was saying as an ethical dealer. Instead you blew it by becoming defensive.
We buy cars, we don't deal in selling cars and we don't always know exactly what we are doing at this time. Personally I think the fact that you need Gap insurance at all is outrageous.
Trust me I could rant on this one forever. Don't even get me started on long term loans and how the dealer encourages them. I asked for a 2 year loan and they treated me like I was nuts to actually want to pay off my car.
The fact is many car dealers lie to the customer and take advantage - that does not make the customer a sheep. It may make the customer unaware, but it does not make us sheep. On the other hand it does make the dealer appear to be a wolf.

That is all anyway.

 

When we bought our new 2006 Prius, the dealer was completely straight. In those days the wait for a Prius was at least three months. Not once did our dealer give me any run-around. Everything was exactly as promised: no hidden fees, no bait-and-switch, no games. They didn't even try to put a dealer sticker on the back.

Not all dealers are crooks. We signed papers, I handed them a check, and we drove away - simple as that.

Tom

 

I'd have believed that a decade ago. Not now. No way.
The internet has put way too much info out there both good and bad.
It paralyzes people sometimes from being able to make decisions on their own.

 

And then you have to deal with the service department....oh boy.... Pray like mad you don't have any issues.

 

Radiant, I was responding for the most part as a buyer to that one. I was reading that from a buyers perspective. I have the unique ability to be both. It goes without saying that I am an ethical fleet sales manager. I am not "the dealer" in the sense that the entire dealership is "the dealer" and I am one person in it.

Don't get me started on GAP - Gap has come about because of the way insurance companies value totalled cars. I find it pretty reprehensible that they want your contract copy for the vin and the dollar value of the car and then don't insure based on that knowledge. They (your insur co) leave YOU to discover after it's been totalled that the payoff's too high and it's YOUR problem. GAP is also sold by the insurance companies - another side cash cow for them to make $ on something they should honor anyway!!!
I think maybe 15-20 years ago, pre internet and all of the resources we have today, it was sheep vs wolf. Now, it's totally different.

My point was that original post that caught my ire was SO 10 years ago. For the most part, it's not still going on -- at least not where I am.
Di

 

Sorry Dianne, I've read a lot of your posts in Prius Chat and I do think you are an ethical salesperson. As I said in my post, I do believe good salespeople and good dealerships exist.

But also as I said I do think that the reality and perception that dealerships are toxic enviroments to the buyer also exists. It's more the perception that is damaging.

If you've sold Toyota's for 30 years then you probably know that when walking onto a lot many times some buyers do lose a lot of their capacity for common sense or rationale. There's often an intimidation factor, a love for the vehicle and almost an ether like state that buyers fall into, and unethical salesmen and dealerships parlay to their greatest advantage.

Again, I do not mean any offense to you. It's individual experience at individual dealerships and locations. But beyond Toyota specifically, there is a reason you can find entire websites with ton's of advice on how to handle dealing with "dealerships" and scams and traps they use. It's because many do use scams and traps.

Often it seems the only leverage a new buyer has with a dealership seconds after signing the contract, is the fabled Customer Satisfaction Survey. Which often seems like a one time shot at some vague opportunity for feedback to be buyer to company. It was about 15 years ago, but I bought a new small pick-up from a dealership once, I loved the pick-up, it was a good vehicle. But at the time after purchase I had a few issues with the dealership handling some minor things that needed to be done. I was upset and they could tell. They actually had the nerve to try and bribe me, telling me to my face that if I brought in the customer service survey,-and let them fill it out, they would give me a "free tank of gas"!

Well, it wasn't Toyota, and it wasn't you, but it's the type of experience that too many people report, that leads to a lifetime of mistrust of dealerships.....and I would think that's too bad for you and dealerships as a whole.

 

J - you are generalizing. That's your own experience. It doesn't happen here at my store and I have yet to hear about anyone who's bought a maint package on a car being upcharged for synthetic oil. That's why the maint. package that Toyota offers is more $ on cars with synth oil.... to cover the excess costs.

When you go to a restaurant and the server suggests a drink or adding things to your meal, or asks about dessert afterwards, do you get equally indignant? Everywhere we go in life, you have someone trying to upgrade, upcharge you, add things, enhance things... going to get a jacuzzi or hot tub and walking out with the gazebo and bar addition because it seemed like a great deal and something you could use... or having a steak and adding the asparagus tips with hollandaise... or going to the department store and getting the belt that matches the shoes you just bought. The guy at Sport Chalet suggesting new bindings for the skis... or better laces to go with the running shoes. The lady at the cosmetics counter suggesting I get the toner to go with my moisturizer purchase.
It's everywhere. Not just dealerships. Everyone suggesting extras is a wolf? No. Just doing their job and sometimes making a good suggestion.

You decide what's right for you. You decide what you need to go with that ... car, steak, shoes, jacuzzi.. or running shoes!


Di

 

opinions... and such

I'm not taking anything personally. I am secure in who I am as a professional in my career; as sure as I am about who I am as a mother and wife.

I just have different opinions about the business and where it IS and where it's going! And, my absolute perspective is this business is evolving very quickly to adapt to the retail challenges we face by the info out there on the internet.

Di

 

That's a softball. Look up in the Service Manual what's scheduled at the different intervals.

25K Interval.....$ZERO...$NADA...If the customer wants tires rotated it's ~$33. Total cost $33.

For completeness here is the summary of what is required on the new Toyota models ( excl 4WD ) using dino-oil.


Oil Changes every 5K..cost = $ZERO
Tire Rotation every 5K..cost = $32

Every 30K change engine air filter and cabin air filter ( or DIY )

Every 100K change the Inverter Coolant ( hybrids ).

Every 125K swap out the spark plugs.
THAT'S IT!!!

As many herein have said numerous times... Read The Manual.

For the 2010's requiring Syn-oil the basic oil change, labor and filter are still FREE for LIFE but there is a charge of $18 for the extra cost of the Sny-oil. But OTOH the OCI has gone to 10K, so for most buyers here the cost of oil changes on the Prius is about $18 per year.

Now if you want more done, that's the buyer's choice. I've had alignments done at an extra cost. I've also had the engine flushed twice, just because. But over 143,000 miles and 4+ yrs I've spent a total of ~$700 on maintenance, excluding rubber.

 

I was not talking about a maintenance package. Here is my post again.

The new scam is when you buy a new car dealers are giving free oil changes for life. When you come in for a free oil change they hit you with surcharges and try to sell you everything buy using FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt).

Dealer - ‘This air filter looks really bad. Have you noticed a change in MPG? Having a dirty air filter will have a drastic effect on MPG’s. I thought you bought this car to save on gas. For only $19.95 we can replace it. It will save you money in the long run’

Dealer - ‘When was the last time you had your radiator flushed? With the extreme weather in Cleveland you should have it done every 15,000 miles. We would hate to have your wife on the side of the road with an overheated car. For only $200 we can do that for you today’

Dealer - ‘Your brake pads look good but they can use a little adjustment. Do you drive with children in the car??? You really should get that done. That will only cost $100’

Dealer - ‘Your wipers look really bad. Can you see when it is rainy really hard? Does your teenager drive the car in the rain? You should get that fixed. It will only cost $20.’

The oil change is not free. It is a mechanism to up sale other services. They make up for the cost of the oil change in surcharges.

People understand if they want union rings or fries with their burger. They do not understand how often a radiator needs flushed. Dealers prey on this.