1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Bloomberg: Regulators Hired by Toyota Helped Halt Investigations

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by a_gray_prius, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    that is one way to look at it. i take it to mean that many consumers have unrealistic expectations and also take any chance they can to blame it on the equipment rather than accept that they drove carelessly
     
  2. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    2,927
    782
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A

    I don't doubt that a lot of consumers blame the equipment and fully agree with you that a nontrivial number of complaints are of this class. However, evidence that Toyota is actively deflecting investigation is troubling - if the engineering was really as good as many claim, then transparency and disclosure shouldn't be an issue (especially when no individuals' privacy is being in any way compromised).

    I suppose my question is that: if there really isn't a problem at all, what's wrong with an investigation? Why spend money (likely a few hundred thousand, paying these individuals) to try and outmaneuver safety agencies? Why do so many people think Toyota should be beyond reproach and investigation?

    FYI: I really am trying to avoid the "if you have nothing to fear, then you should have nothing to hide" viewpoint because of the numerous pitfalls involved and its use in the erosion of civil liberties. In the case of engineering and not individuals, however, maybe it's not such an issue?
     
  3. Aegison

    Aegison Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    404
    32
    36
    Location:
    Southeast MI
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    This isn't a jab at your comment, but rather to demonstrate how run-away publicity and opinion make some cars get fixed when they don't need it, and others to go on lacking needed attention via recall.

    I had the opportunity to read some of the Pinto criminal trial documents -- incuding closing arguments and the opinion, which was in Ford's favor.

    By way of background, the poster-child for it was, if I remember correctly, a rather old Pinto with a 2-by-6 instead of a rear bumper, and a rag stuffed in the filler nozzle instead of a gas cap.

    The judge found the true data compelling. One example was that, of cars in its size class, and all those of smaller cars, the Pinto had the fewest accident-ralated fires when data were shown as incidents per hundred vehicles. Yes, Pinto had more fire-related deaths than some other small cars -- because Pinto's sales were much larger. But the car wasn't established as defective, and had a lower rate of fires in accidents than the others.

    To me, bringing up the Pinto isn't to re-debate it here. I bring it up because the feeding-frenzy in a case like Toyota's means it will "fix" whatever has the most "push" behind it from Congress and the media, and there may be other Toyota's which have a lot more need of recall -- but will be lost in the shuffle for lack of enough "noise" being raised about them.
     
  4. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    2,927
    782
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Which ones? They recalled like ALL of them. :D
     
  5. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    6,050
    205
    0
    Location:
    S.F. Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Corollas haven't been recalled yet. They are being considered for recall over steering problems, but the recall button hasn't been pushed as yet. If it does get pushed, that will be pretty close to all.
     
  6. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    6,050
    205
    0
    Location:
    S.F. Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    NEWSFLASH - The ex-NHTSA employees saved Toyota $100 million on recalls in 2007: Toyota saved $100 million by limiting recall - Autos- msnbc.com

    Cliff-Notes version:
    Looks like Toyota put profits ahead of safety. That is a predictable occurrence when you are Safety Deaf.
     
  7. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    829
    111
    0
    Location:
    Archdale, NC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    With those documents it appears we now have our smoking gun. Very rough ride ahead for Toyota.
     
  8. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    6,050
    205
    0
    Location:
    S.F. Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Add in the criminal investigation and the ride approaches the conditions that cause the brake system drop-out issue. :eek:
     
  9. ManualOnly

    ManualOnly New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    193
    28
    0

    If Toyota sales suffers and punished for good reason(s), I would expect politicians to address possible job loses.

    Some US Toyota plants have plan to halt production in San Antonio, Texas, and Georgetown to address growing inventory overhead.

    Toyota employs 1,850 workers at the San Antonio plant and about 6,600 at the Georgetown facility. So far, none will be laid off during the production interruptions.

    Toyota's US market share fell 3.8 points to 14.1 per cent in January after sales fell 15.8 per cent to 98,796 vehicles, according to Autodata.


    And who is to gain after all these Bill claims and law sues? :rolleyes: