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Traffic light timing in Philadelphia

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by nooaah, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

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    Here is a not very brief rundown of our situation (myself and other PChat members who live in downtown Philly): Very simply, it's nearly impossible to get any sort of decent mileage in this city. The culprit is the city itself, namely the geniuses who timed all of the traffic lights.

    Imagine yourself sitting at a red light. You see the light turn green and you start to move. Just ahead, as your light turns green, the next light turns red. Philadelphia has short blocks, mind you. Now, repeat this process sometimes for 6 blocks consecutively.

    This is the most infuriating part about driving in this city. Mind you, I travel frequently for work. I've driven in most of the major cities in the Midwest and East Coast. Philadelphia is the only city that consistently has horrendously timed lights. To drive the point home, I have a 5-10 difference in MPG between when I drive in Manhattan or Brooklyn and when I drive in Philadelphia. Same weather conditions, consistent disparities with my 2008 and now my 2010.

    Beyond this even being an issue of mileage, it's also an issue of unnecessarily jamming up traffic. I've had more than 5 cab drivers, on their own, complain about the lights. It drives them batS.

    So, Philadelphia Prius owners (and I know there are a ton of you), who do we have to complain to at least to get this issue recognized? It's a cause of frequent traffic jams and it wastes millions and millions of dollars in fuel for commuters. I'm considering writing a letter to the Inquirer and copying my Congressman.

    What else is there to do?
     
  2. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    You're not alone. Some cities over here have deliberately set their lights to do this! Apparantly it is proven to discourage car use and move people onto public transport. What they don't say is that buses and cabs that make up this public transport also get delayed.

    I would recommend you write your letter and hope you get things changed. My home had some of its lights set this way but were changed to normal when there was a change of political party.
     
  3. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

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    If that's the case, my advice for them would be to clean the pee from the train platforms and to have the buses show up on time more than 20% of the time. :p
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    If we had any traffic lights I would share your pain. We have two flashers; do those count?

    There *is* one real traffic light at the south end of the county. What's the best way to time a single traffic light?

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D

    Tom
     
  5. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    I have the same problem on a road I use a lot here. It is a major through-route, but the lights aren't timed at all - so if I'm driving home very late at night with no cross-traffic whatsoever, I can get great mileage. Otherwise, I get crap. It's a 40mph zone where most people do 50, and the lights are spaced the perfect distance to kill mileage.

    The best I can do is roll through a few late red lights, and go easy on the acceleration until I'm sure I can make the next light. I often take my foot off the gas long before the next light if I know it's a long one and has just turned yellow - other drivers often don't get it and pass me in the next lane, then they see me glide past them at 10-15mph just as they are about to get started again from a full stop.

    If your mayor / councilors care about the environment, they should be prompted to do a study of how much gas could be saved (and pollution reduced) by timing the lights for through traffic - it's pretty surprising how much, but makes sense when you realize ALL vehicles lose efficiency in stop&go.

    I once lived in a city/town which had done this, and while it feels a little annoying to be forced to drive exactly the speed limit (that's how they calculate the timing), it was really nice to drive through strings of lights that were all green.
     
  6. firepa63

    firepa63 Former Prius Owner

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    For the OP ... PennDOT.
     
  7. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

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    I'd probably have a better chance of getting a response from Obama than PennDOT haha.
     
  8. Radiant

    Radiant New Member

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    Probably not the best recommendation. Let me give you a little senario: A cross-traffic car is approaching the intersection, slowing down so they don't have to stop for the red light, as the light changes they cruise on through on the green. You T-bone them. Both cars are totaled plus, a third car is also totaled because you were going very fast and threw the car you hit out of their lane and into oncoming traffic.

    Does this sound like I know the details a little too well? Probably because I am still dealing with the hospital bills from the x-rays my family had to have because some lady thought she could just roll through the red light. I will be forever vigilant on looking for this type of driver when I approach an intersection. In fact I get nervous when a car is approaching at too fast a speed and I have a green light.

    This is a happy story because no one was killed. Not everyone is as lucky.

    Soooooooooo not worth the few seconds you save.
     
  9. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    Just to put this back into my original context: I said "a few", not all. It really depends on what I can see coming - if I can clearly see everything, and nobody is coming, and I'm close to the light (i.e.: the light is "late", as I said), I will usually choose to go through rather than stomp the brakes (and possibly be rear-ended). When in doubt, I'll take the regen energy instead. Much of the time, the through traffic is being forced to stop due to a single cross-traffic car triggering the light - they're not timed (as I said).

    This is an area I know well, the speed zone (as I said) is 40mph and the yellow-to-red interval is timed accordingly. It's 5 lanes wide (2 each direction plus a turning lane), so it's pretty easy to see why the light is changing. Sometimes the light changes because someone stopped and turned right, so there's nobody there at all.

    Regardless of whether the light is in my favor or not, my eyes are on a swivel - as you rightly pointed out, it's just as easy to be the recipient of a t-boning...
     
  10. Radiant

    Radiant New Member

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    I didn't mean to come across too strongly or to indicate that you were an unsafe driver. I was just looking to warn those who may or may not be checking the intersection for the unseen car before going through.
    I've come to realize the biggest risk I will probably ever take in life is getting into a car. Crazy since I do it nearly every day. Ahhhh, now I sound like a cliche. Oops Sorry:rolleyes:
     
  11. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    So very true - and a little paranoia does pay off in this case.
     
  12. Exponent

    Exponent New Member

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    To the OP, do you typically drive the same routes at the same times of the day? Because in many cases (at least theoretically in my head), it might be nearly impossible to time lights for both directions simultaneously. E.g, if traffic going east is optimized, then traffic going west has to deal with awful timing. This would be highly dependent upon speed limit and average distance between lights, but I could imagine that it happens all the time.

    In the evenings, I have to drive toward downtown, while most people are driving out of downtown and into the suburbs. And I've noticed that the lights often hate me, probably because they're optimized for the larger number of evening commuters. C'est la vie.

    But maybe your situation is different. I wouldn't put it past government agencies to produce inefficient systems. :)
     
  13. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Run for Mayor. Promise snow removal & traffic light timing.
     
  14. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

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    Yes, I try to avoid the lights as often as possible. I've driven all over the city at all times of the day and night. If you stay on the same road and hit a red, you're bound to get several consecutively. I have found routes that avoid the lights, but then you're hitting stop signs every block. I drive out of the city to go to work, btw. The cross traffic does not benefit whatsoever from the timing (mainly because there never is any, even in rush hour in that part of the city).

    I'd settle for weekly trash pickup at this point.
     
  15. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    As an ex-downtown Philadelphian (7th and Walnut), I would suggest City Council and the Mayor's office, along with the local political party leaders, as possibly more useful than the Congressional delegation on this sort of issue.
    It's possible there is a deliberate slowdown. It's also possible there are rivalries between the folks who want N-S to be the travel direction that is preferred by stoplight timing vs. E-W. It's also (barely) possible that no one has really worked on this problem, but I doubt that.

    For those unfamiliar with Phila., it's not like Manhattan, where the N-S avenues are wide and "fast" while EW streets are not.
     
  16. Iceman123

    Iceman123 New Member

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    Hey Nooash,

    Can I know what mpg you're getting in Philly and whats your total average....It seems I have the same problem here in NYC...To many lights and to many cars on your nice person ! Love seeing my car getting 50 Mpg + on the highway...But I cringe at 35 MPG City !...Wonder what they really mean 51 city ! ?
     
  17. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

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    I actually do a bit better in Manhattan and Brooklyn. It's pretty hard to tell just how much of a drop I get considering a lot of my trips in the city are short in distance and time. In warm weather, I was averaging about 54-56mpg highway/city. In Philadelphia, it was more like 48-50mpg on longer trips; say from South Philly to the Northeast -- a long enough trip to account for engine warmup.

    35mpg sounds pretty low for NYC, even in the winter time; unless your trips are only about 10 minutes or so. Short trips = low MPG on most cars in any city. Also, when starting from a red light or stop sign, don't try to go with the every time battery unless you know you have an opportunity to regen. This will end up just spinning the engine more than it has to in the long-run. I trained myself to stop doing that in the city and my MPG went up over 5%. That may be the difference right there for you between 35 and 40mpg, even with short trips.

    Also, with my short trips, I'm still getting over 40mpg. I've driven over 10 Priuses and I've never gotten below 45ish for a tank. I know this will sound annoying, but check your tire pressure, too.
     
  18. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    I'm not in CC often enough to say with certainty, but my anecdotal experience is that it's hit and miss. Sometimes you'll have to stop at every block.. other times you can go 5-6 blocks or circle-circle on the Parkway. I don't think they're purposefully timed to stop traffic.

    The correct department to contact is Streets.

    CS Streets
     
  19. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    To add to Grumpy's post, it was only in April 2009 that the government actually stopped discouraging councils from having sensor-linked series of green lights to improve traffic flow.