2002 Transmission Issues

Is it possible that the clunk is caused by a bad CV joint? Did your mechanic check the two half-shafts?

It is true that if the transaxle is the problem, the dealer will replace the entire assembly as they are not able to disassemble and replace components. In that case you might want to consider buying a salvage part rather than spend $6K at the dealer for a new transaxle.

 

Don't rule out engine/transmission mounts.

Bob Wilson

 

That's not true. Many parts have been available for some time.

 

Am currently working through a failed transaxle on my 2003. Dealer will not replace transaxle subassemblies. Replacement trans quoted at $5650 plus labor, making the decision to repair a no-go. There is no shop I can identify in the midwest that will take on a trans replacement, so time to move on.

 

It isn't that the dealer is "unable" it is more that they are "unwilling" to do so. Dealers generally don't want to mess with tearing down engines or transmissions. Their techs are just trained to replace them, and sometimes not very well at that.

 

I was responding to a post in which the writer claimed that the dealer is "not able to disassemble and replace components" - which, in the case of the Gen I transaxle, is simply not true. I'm just trying to counter misinformation.

In response to your post, however, some dealerships are quite happy repairing engines and transmissions, and do a very good job.

 

I'm aware that Toyota offers for sale various Prius transaxle components. As you consider my assertion to be misinformation, a few questions for you:

- Please identify those Toyota dealers (name, city/state) who have tech staff competent to repair Prius transaxles (I am not talking about the typical Toyota automatic transaxle or transmission, where I would expect the typical dealership should have competent staff to repair some failures.)

- What are the two or three most likely Prius transaxle failure root causes, and what would the Toyota dealer typically charge to repair those root causes?

- Can the competent Toyota tech precisely identify the failed Prius transaxle part before the transaxle is disassembled? (In other words, how much risk does the owner assume that the final repair bill will substantially exceed the originally quoted amount?)

A new transaxle has an MSRP of $3,460. Excluding the cost of labor to remove and reinstall the transaxle:

- Suppose the MG1 or MG2 stator winding has failed. What will the transaxle repair price be?

- Given the above, is it economical to repair the transaxle?

In post #5 above, kenopa asserted that his dealer wanted to charge $5,650 just for the part, plus labor to replace the transaxle. This is a dealer markup of ~$2,200 over MSRP.

- What could the dealer's service manager be thinking to charge such an exorbitant amount?

- Is this just a way for the dealership to say, sorry, we are not interested in doing this work for you?

Many Classic owners have reported transaxle failures outside the 5 year / 60K mile powertrain warranty, and have been asked to pay for a new transaxle. A few 2G owners have had transaxle failures outside warranty and again were asked to pay for a new transaxle.

Here's a current example of a very simple transaxle repair. A wiring harness connector socket on the front of the transaxle was broken due to front-end accident damage. The OP's Toyota dealer service dept wanted to replace the entire transaxle, rather than replace the socket: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-technical-discussion/75575-i-robbed.html

The OP towed the car to an independent Prius specialist for repair.

This is a very important issue for Classic and older 2G owners whose cars' powertrain warranties have expired. The 7-9 year old car with 100K+ miles on the odometer has a market value of <=$5K. If the owner is confronted with a Toyota dealer repair quote of $5-6K (or even much more, in kenopa's case) to replace the transaxle, that is a very tough nut to swallow and it probably makes more sense to tow the car to the salvage yard (unless a salvage transaxle can be located along with an independent willing to install it.)

I know of no case where a Toyota dealer's service dept has offered to repair a failed transaxle, and there have been a good number documented here on PriusChat as well as the Yahoo Prius forum. Since you know Toyota dealers who are willing to perform transaxle repair, please provide answers to the above rather than continue to keep us in suspense.

 

Let's back up a minute. This seems to be an emotional issue for you, and your post has gone off on quite a few tangents. I don't think you are purposely trying to cloud the issue, but I'd prefer that the conversation stay on track.

You had stated:

So if the dealer is able to disassemble and replace components, your post is unfortunately, incorrect. If it is possible to find a dealer that will do so, your post is even more incorrect. In addition to pointing this out, I stated that some dealerships are quite happy repairing engines and transmissions, and do a very good job. I stand by that assertion.

So let's keep the focus on that. Agreed?

To begin with, Toyota service information shows how to diagnose the motors in the Gen 1 transaxle, and how to replace them separately. As far as I know, Toyota does not offer training on the disassembly of the transaxle, which is not surprising, as it is not complicated, and is clearly explained in the service information. As well, you can find parts listings for both Gen 1 motor assemblies, as well as various components such as the PSD, gears, chain, bearings, and so on.

But if, as you claim, Toyota dealerships "are not able to disassemble and replace components", then Toyota would surely have not invested time and money to make the service information and the parts available.

Feel free to research this for yourself.

Why are you unable to do this yourself? Surely you are capable of doing so. Just pick up the phone. And again, all I said was that some dealerships are quite happy repairing engines and transmissions, and do a very good job. If you find that no Toyota dealership is willing to do so, I will be more than willing to admit my mistake.

After all, we're all interested in accurate information. Right?

For the Gen I Prius, MG2 is the most common failure. After that, it's difficult to say without robust statistics. Too many folks will look at, say, seven failures and extrapolate "data". There are many different reasons why a Gen 1 transaxle can fail.

For the Gen II, there is no clear trend.

But your question has nothing to do with your complaint. You've stated that if the transaxle is the problem, the dealer will replace the entire assembly as they are not able to disassemble and replace components. I've already provided enough information to help you learn for yourself that this is not so.

Yes.

It would depend in part on whether the transaxle is being repaired or replaced, but repair facilities are free to set their own prices.

That is, of course, dependent on many factors: residual value of the vehicle, customer's financial health, and so on. But again, the question is whether or not a it is possible for a dealership to repair rather than replace a Prius transaxle. You're bringing up an entirely different subject.

Profit.

I don't know. You'd have to ask the service manager.

I don't consider it odd that vehicles out of warranty are not covered by the warranty.

The dealership obviously misdiagnosed the vehicle. And there are, of course, competent independent shops capable of working on the Prius. I've recommended some in the past.

I don't disagree with any of that. But again, you posted about a completely different subject: you stated unequivocally that Toyota dealerships are "not able to disassemble and replace components." That's not true, and I've provided enough information to demonstrate that.

I don't think anyone claimed that you did know of such a case.

Again, why can't you do this for yourself?

By the way, if my posts trouble you, please feel free to ignore them. Really, I won't mind. But if I see something posted that I know to be untrue, I may point that out, so that forum readers do not remain misinformed.

What's wrong with that?

 

Thanks for your feedback. I agree that the Toyota dealer tech has available the technical information needed to disassemble and repair the Prius tranaxle. I further agree that Toyota makes Prius transaxle components available for sale.

I should have said that the dealer service department most likely will not recommend repair of the failed Prius transaxle. This is based upon my observations of a few dozen reported failures where a new transaxle was recommended, rather than the service dept offering to repair the old.

If you know a specific situation where a Toyota dealership has actually repaired a Prius transaxle, I would be interested in hearing the details including the root cause of the failure and the repair price.

 

We do know that Art's Garage in Oakland CA has done this sort of thing. Detailed description on their web site, and if I recall correctly, they considered it to be generally not cost- or time-effective.

 

It was cost-effective, but not time-effective, because they had to wait about a month for some bearing shims. But that's an unusual circumstance, and the dealership may have botched the order.

Besides, there are other sources for the shims, and an experienced technician could figure that out.

 

I had a similar issue with my 2002 Prius at 86,400 miles.
I was driving up a hill one day at a traffic light. The light turned green I pushed the gas the the car rolled backwards.
The breaks worked the engine light came on.
At that point I knew the car was dead, it was towed to Power Toyota of Irvine.
My extended warranty just ended at 80,000 miles.
The dealership wanted just under $6k to replace the transmission.
They said it has what they called a floating short.
I called Toyota and asked them for options.
They would not of course cover the cost of the repair but the dealership insisted the 2002 Toyota Prius transmission has no serviceable parts. I waited about 4 weeks to have a new transmission brought in from Japan and had to pay this repair bill to get the car working again.

So there is still a question if Toyota cannot service a transmission or does it have to be replaced.

Had I known it was not serviceable I probably would have chosen a different car.

 

I'm still waiting for the P3120 subcodes before towing the 2003 home for repair/disposition. I am now convinced that the dealer quoted me the $5650 price simply because they did not want the work. They are up to their armpits in recall alligators and that's all they can focus on at this time. Maybe the trans failure simply showed up at a bad time. This is underscored by the fact that, having sold me a 2010 Prius II on Wednesday, they now do not want the 2003 in trade at any price. With salvage transaxles available in St. Louis for $800 (only about 5 hours from me), wish I had the tools and expertise to attemps replacement on my own. But then the vehicle would be excess to our needs and I would sell it anyway.

 

First, congratulations on the new car. But you still have this left over Prius with a tansaxle that needs replacing.

One option is to see if a local tech or high school might be interested in the car as a donation. But what you really need is a technically skilled buyer willing to do the work. Those are rare.

Bob Wilson

 

My 2004 Prius needs a transaxle bearing and the MG1 heat sensor replaced. I'm in British Columbia and can confirm that NO dealer in Western Canada will undertake it. If you know of a dealer, or an independent shop, in the Western US who will, please give me some contact info as I will gladly tow the car to anyplace north of Mexico and west of the Rockies to get it repaired. Thanks.

 

Can you find an independent or dealer shop in your area that is willing to install a salvage transaxle? If yes, why not buy a salvage unit for $500 plus shipping: 04 and newer Prius Parts Cars

Seems easier, faster, and cheaper than towing your car thousands of miles, or trying to get the original transaxle repaired. Good luck.

 

What are the symptoms, and what information do you have on the diagnosis? Both issues are rare for this particular transaxle. It would be even more unlikely for them to be present at the same time.

 

Apparently Downtown Toyota in Vancouver was willing to replace MG2 on my vehicle before I bought it. At least that is what the seller told me, and I trust him. They would have found that that was not the problem but that the transaxle had been run dry, requiring a full replacement.

As far as I know the temperature sensors are imbedded in the windings and cannot be replaced. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Not necessarily. The lubrication system can be pretty forgiving. If the transaxle had "run dry" as you say, it is quite possible that one component would have suffered failure, while others would have been fine. You'd have to disassemble the unit and inspect the components to make a final determination.

Correct: the temperature sensors in the windings are not serviceable.