Frank Ahrens: Why it's so hard for Toyota to find out what's wrong

In that case the bmw technique would be fine. Encrypt the data, but when an owner or safety agency requests it provide it for a fee. Toyota has refused owners and used the lack of machines as a reason to not investigate for the safety agencies. This can not be for privacy. The publicity has caused a change and hopefully owners, or the families of dead owners, will be able able to see the contents soon.

 

How much? Perhaps a fee of $100,000,000,000.

That could be propriety data which shows in great detail exactly how the system operates, revealing behavior & algorithms so well you could use it to build your own.

Didn't think that one through, eh? Data is protected for good reason.
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lol. I think it is available for a reasonable fee, which is much lower than your estimate. Fees get rid of the excuse of providing only one, and saying it is not available. This is reasonable since there is a cost. No US headquartered auto manufacturer encrypts their data.

Having specified logging information in past processes, it should be possible to provide information without anything that can be viewed as trade secrets. Debugging information that contains proprietary information does not need to be included in the reports. Withholding brake and accelerator actuation data from owners can not be construed as protecting rights to privacy or trade secrets.

Full disclaimer - I have done work for bmw and delco electronics but not in this area.

 

I was correct on the braking issue. It was a 'feel' adjustment for an extremely limited number of people. There was nothing amiss with the braking system. It was Toyota 'stroking' the few complainers, nothing more.

Your other statements are entirely unverifiable. As I said you have no information from Toyota on this issue, pretend as you might. Words are cheap.

 

And your point is? If the insurance companies really want access to the EDR, they will put in a clause to your insurance contract that says they get access to the data before they pay a claim. Think that can't happen? Check the treatment agreement with your healthcare providers. The 'privacy' theory gets shot down just as quickly. You are operating a motor vehicle on public roads, interacting with other motor vehicles. The larger right of public safety trumps your right to privacy. It is the same concept with someone exercising their right to shout fire in a crowded theater - the collective right of the other patrons to be safe in the theater trumps the right of the shouter to express themselves.

 

I was going to post that Phish was going to deny austin's sworn testimony, but he beat me to it. Phish has NIH - Not Invented by Him. If he didn't invent it, it is bogus.

 

Let's examine the evidence a little bit. I have no problem with others making up there own mind about your opinions and whether you ignore, make up, or distort facts.

You said that there was no braking anomaly in the generation 3 prius. To support this you put forth that the braking system was the same as the gen 2 and that had no problem. You blamed drivers for not understanding how a braking system should work.

I on the other hand put forth that I felt a short duration drop out of braking force, and after the drop out less braking force at the same pedal position. I suggested that this was a hard to reproduce and may be a software problem.

The Japanese and US government opened safety investigations on the anomaly. Toyota reported that it was able to recreate the said behavior. They stated that it happened infrequently, but this increased in cold weather. They as reported that they had a design defect that they have since corrected in software. This means that braking anomaly was not put there on purpose by toyota, and was not the intended operation of the brakes. Also according to toyota the software fix reduces the time of reduced braking in transition to abs, and decreases abs stopping distance. This is exactly a fix to the problem that forum members have reported, verified by toyota as a defect in software. This directly contradicts your assertion that "toyota found nothing amiss". This goes directly to either your inability to understand facts or your perhaps your intentional misrepresentation of information. How do you think toyota determined there is a feel issue that is more repeatable in cold weather?

Toyota also stated that the braking system was substantially different than the generation 2. The engine, motors, ecu, and software are all different. This directly contradicts another of your assertions. I also question that you "Know" that the gen 2 braking system is working correctly without any evidence.

You put forth that you tested over 100 gen 3 prii. I doubt you did any testing at all or even have driven that number of these cars. If you have can you provide the test procedures and test log.

What do you think you know? Toyota has stated in public testimony to congress and in courts that the erds are encrypted and that there is only one device in the united states. They also have stated that dealers do not take erd data from customers complaining of problems (how could they with the lack of devices). They are now rectifying the situation, but I don't think toyota has left any doubt that they look at the logs when customers have complaints.

Apologies to others for taking this off topic. To me at least its important to intelligent discussion to not greatly distort the facts. On the brake issue, toyota showed that it can investigate these issues in a timely manner. The acceleration issue seems much more difficult to diagnose, and will be happy when toyota brings all the best practices in troubleshooting to bear on this problem.