The Real Risk of Toyotas

The evidence is right in front of us.

Unintended acceleration reports happen to ALL makes of cars both with and without electronic components and with and without brake overrides. Unintended acceleration reports are extremely rare although slightly more common in late model Toyota/Lexus cars. Reports do NOT verify cause.

This is a pretty powerful indication that driver error is likely since it is UNLIKELY that some other common cause could be responsible for such a MASSIVE coincidence.

However, no harm can be done by continuing the search for possible causes.

I do worry about using courts for quality control. There is no logic to the action of courts.

I also worry about possible long range consequences like the increased timidity of new entrepreneurs because of fear of liability and the effect this may have on innovation in automobiles.

 

This is a very, very important point. People report all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Some are nutcakes; some want money or attention; some are confused; others are actually correct. You don't have to look any further than the relatively large number of UFO reports over the years. As far as we know, none of these have been correct.

Unintended acceleration does happen, and in all kinds of cars. All it takes is a broken return spring on the throttle or a diesel engine with bad rings. Electronics or software failure is also certainly possible. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to catch a pedal under the mat or step on the gas instead of the brake. These things also happen.

What does this mean? It means that we need to look at each report for what it is: a report. It may be useful, it may be misleading, it might even be fraudulent. Further complicating the analysis is that reports are filed by social creatures, easily swayed by herd mentality, with the media urging on the stampede, shouting "Run! Run! You are all going to die!"

Try to remember that a report is just what one person says is so. Nothing more, nothing less.

Tom

 

And while Toyota is busily trying to separate out the wheat from the chaff, some people are actually experiencing sudden acceleration. Toyota could have bought themselves some time by doing what many other manufacturers have done - install brake-throttle overrides. If the car speeds up, the natural tendency is to hit the brakes. With a brake-throttle override in place, the brakes overrule the throttle and the car comes to a stop.

Transparent (non-encrypted) data logging would g a very very VERY long way to helping separate the wheat from the chaff on sudden acceleration. For each report of sudden acceleration, pull the datafile. If engine revs jump dramatically independently of accelerator pedal position followed by application of the brake pedal, you have a good candidate for sudden acceleration. I suspect the data is available; just not accessible.

 

Brakes generally win over throttle even without an override.

Override systems only work when the throttle is still under command, or when some other shutoff method is used, such as killing spark or cutting the fuel supply. You have to decide how many failure modes to defend against, and whether the cure is worse than the disease.

The Prius already has the brake override, so we can rest assured in that area.

Tom

 

Of course the brake override will work only IF the brake pedal is actually depressed. "Actually experiencing sudden acceleration" is often caused by depressing the accelerator pedal. I do it daily. And I suspect, so do others, occasionally UNINTENTIONALLY.

With so much evidence of this experience being reported in so many different cars of so many different configurations and so many different ages, I suggest that reasonable doubt exists, pending real evidence which can be replicated, that there is a defect in the Toyota car. It is premature to presume otherwise. It is wise to study the matter, but the study should include the possibility of human error as well! This is not to protect anyone. It is to get at the truth.

 

Having a brake-throttle override in place will stop the car if both pedals are pressed at the same time. If you have hit the accelerator pedal by mistake, you can press the brake pedal to slow down. The override is there in case the engine continues to accelerate after you have taken your foot off the accelerator pedal.

 

Many? My understanding was that this is in only a small portion of the new cars in the North American market, primarily of German nameplates. Who else has it?

At one time these files contained only 5 or 10 seconds of data preceding airbag deployment, making it useless for the bulk of runaway complaints. Has this changed?

 

apriusfan

I fully support the brake-throttle override for the hypothetical situation which you describe and am glad that my 2006 Prius is equipped with it. I gather that it is much simpler to have this feature with a "drive by wire system".

Just as it seems worth while to eliminate "drive by wire" as a source of these unintended acceleration reports, if that is possible, we need to place attention on the very real possibility of driver error. If it turns out to be driver error or at least some combination of driver error and something else, then the proper solution will proportionally different.

And lives are at issue either way even if they are not a significant number in relation to the total number of highway fatalities.
-----
By the way, my Prius was in to Appleway Toyota here in Spokane Valley for the 30,000 mile service today and there was no mention of modification to my accelerator pedal or floor mat (the black all-weather one).

 

And as far as "zero tolerance nut cases" -- if I have zero tolerance
for truck drivers who tailgate ridiculously close in the rightmost
lane and who should know better, does that make me a bad person?
[Hint: ask their dispatchers/safety managers after I get off
the phone with them.]
.
_H*

 

I have heard that some GM models are equipped with the function, but I don't have personal experience. I do know that 2010 3 series BMWs have the function.

I don't know how much data the Toyota recorders keep, since Toyota is not sharing details regarding the recorders.

 

It would seem that a true brake-throttle override function combined with a transparent data logging function would be the best response to operator error. When the nitwit brought their car in screaming about sudden acceleration, the service advisor downloads the data from the data logger and shows how the accelerator pedal was pressed and not the brake pedal. That would shut them up real quick.

EDIT: Then there would be all of the howling about 'invasion of privacy'. And Toyota's response could be that since there were too many specious claims of sudden acceleration, we had no choice but to implement a transparent data logging function....

Perhaps there is a communications break-down between Toyota and your dealer? You might want to contact Toyota in that regard?