Got new tires!

They now have Hydro Edge with Green-X. Did you consider it?

 

Any concerns with the lack of a mileage warranty? or the fact that it starts off with less tread then other tires?

 

That is a great point. The tire with less tread will have lower rolling resistant.

Is the Hydroedge with Green-X getting a little lower MPG due to having more tread? They both cost about the same but HEGX has almost twice mileage warranty.

 

Great to hear. I've also heard great things about the energy saver tires. Come summer time I think I'm going to swap my summer tires out for the energy savers.

 

I had just purchased my used 2006 Prius in November 09 when I had the Yokohama Avid H4S tires replaced with Michelin X-ice snow tires for winter. I recently switched back to the Yokohamas and was expecting a nice mileage jump with the change but was a little shocked to see a sustained drop in average mileage from near 50mpg with the X-ice winter tires down to low to mid 40s with the Avids. I thought the increased gripping abilities of winter tires was supposed to result in a mileage hit...not the other way around. Doing a little research I found that apparently, according to Consumer Reports, the Yokohama Avid H4S are a nice high performance tire meant to really grip the road and thus have a worse than average rolling resistance rating...but could they really make that much of a difference in mpg? Indeed they do!

Anywhoo, after about a month of low mileage frustration I decided to take a chance and replace them with the highly rated Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires at Costco. Inflated to 42 front/40 rear (as always), I have been averaging mid to upper 50s ever since. Not too bad as I drive mostly by cruise control...I hope that MPG average goes up as I gain proficiency with pulse & glide, etc. Not sure if it was the wisest longevity vs cost investment but the low rolling resistance Michelin Energy Savers A/S tires are making an immediate 10+mpg difference for me as compared to the high rolling resistance Yokohama Avid H4S. Of course, if you switch from a tire with a more neutral or low rolling resistance profile you will probably see more modest gains.

I see hobbit had his inflated to 44psi all around...I wonder if that would make a difference for me.

 

Wow, I guess I might give them a boost to 50psi then and try them out. Do you inflate to a slightly higher pressure in front or keep them the same all the way around? How is the ride affected with psi increased like that...is there a very noticeable difference in comfort, noise, etc?

Yeah, cross rotation is a nice luxury to have available...keep us informed if you find anything of interest with the Energy Savers!

 

Please be careful with the PSIs guys. A 8" tired from a portable generator had too much pressure and left my dad in the ICU. Literally inches away from death.

Don't risk safety for MPG.

 

hobbit,

Were you able to gauge how well the Michelin Energy Saver A/S performed in the snow and ice this winter?

Can you compare them to your HydroEdges, which Consumer Reports rated as "fair" (below average) in snow traction and "good" (average) in ice braking?

 

And what PSI was that 8" tire pressurized to? What is its rated maximum "Burst Pressure" PSI?

 

Inflated to near 50 psi all around but don't really notice a difference in mileage yet (still averaging mid-50s driving mostly by cruise control)...maybe i need to let them wear in awhile as they are only about a month old. No real noticeable difference in ride or noise either.

 

I think there may be a sweet spot for PSI and it may not be 60PSI. Still playing with 44psi and seems to be as good as 48psi.

 

Hobbitt
How did the Energy Savers do in the snow this whole season? I am about ready to buy new tires and this is one of the ones I am considering.
Thanks

 

Sam's is offering Michelin Energy Saver AS for $125/tire right
now, which is close to the lowest price I have seen.

On top of that, you get $70 off a set of four, if you buy by
March 31st.

[For the record, I have no affilliation with Sams or Walmart.]

Personally, I would like to get a set, for the increase mileage
and for the reportedly lower road noise. However, my '09 has
only 8k miles on it, so I would be throwing away the residual
value of the GY OEM tires.

 

Not sure how the Energy Saver A/S will do in snow and ice as I switched from my Michelin X-Ice Xi2 winter tires after the snow/ice season here in the Pacific NW. But it shouldn't be too hard to predict their winter performance. They are all-season tires and performed very close to other well respected all-season tires as far as wet/dry braking and cornering go in the TireRack tests (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/). So it seems that Michelin's claim of no compromise between fuel economy and performance is indeed valid. However, TireRack, Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, and the Automobile Protection Association (the Canadian version of Consumer Reports) each have several reports and videos comparing regular tires vs all-season tires vs winter tires vs studded tires, etc. They all conclude the term "all-season" is, for the most part, a confusing misnomer (intentionally, perhaps?), as tire experts and consumers quickly find when they actually try to drive these tires on snow and ice. Apparently, very few all-season tires perform well at all in winter-driving tests with most getting mixed results; and reportedly several otherwise highly rated all-season tires actually perform worse than regular tires in winter conditions. For example: In TireRack comparison tests on snow and ice, the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S ($120) and Yokohama W4s ($100) finished dead last, even though they're considered "all-season" tires. No matter who was doing the ratings, they pretty much found, that with few notable exceptions (see Boo's posts below), most all-season tires performed no better than regular tires in snow and ice when compared to dedicated winter tires...and through my powers of extrapolation I suspect the same will be true of the Energy Saver A/S. Each of the above organizations strongly recommend a dedicated winter tire. A few of the new technology winter tires reportedly perform as well or better than studded tires. A second set of tires is kind of an expensive decision in areas where it only snows and ices over a few times a year, but those reports and videos are the reason I ended up getting the X-Ice Xi2 winter tires.
Hope that helps a little!

 

I don't think that's exactly true with respect to Consumer Reports' studies.

Consumer Reports November 2009 tests of A/S and Winter tires showed significant differences in snow and ice performance even among different A/S tires.

In fact, Consumer Reports tests showed that at least one A/S tire -- Hankook Optimo H727 -- performed as well or better in snow traction and ice braking than most of the winter tires they tested:

Consumer_Reports_Nov._2009_Tire_Tests-1.doc
.

 

I hope I made it clear I was summarizing expert conclusions rather than stating my own. I certainly don't claim to be any expert of any kind but I do like to check with the experts online when I can, and hopefully using multiple sources...thus, TireRack, Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, Automobile Protection Association, among other sources referencing Sweden's Teknikens Varld, Motorforaren, Auto Motor & Sport, Aftonbladet and Vi Bilagare as well as Norway's Motor (the ultimate reasons decided on the Michelin X-Ice Xi2) and I certainly don't want to mis-represent them in any way. Nor do I want to offend anyone who is under the impression (as I was prior to the research) that their highly rated all-season tires are anywhere near as good as dedicated winter tires in snow and ice. The write-ups and video comparisons/demonstrations made it really very simple... some all-seasons did better in snow and ice than regular tires (some sources called them summer tires) and, surprisingly, some did worse. Since most are focused on improving performance in other areas ie. wet driving, etc when they threw winter tires into the mix the even the performance of the few all-season tires that actually showed improvement over regular tires in snow and ice were blown away by the snow tires which simply performed so much better. This should not be so hard to accept when you think about it. As one source put it all-season tires are meant to be relatively low cost alternatives to performance tires: an attempt to balance long tire life with decent or better performance in most driving conditions...a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none...while winter tires really are performance tires for conditions of ice and snow. Of course, as you said, they found a lot of variability within the all-season categories, but this is true for all categories, thus the very need to create rankings of any kind at all. Again, they aren't my conclusions, I am just relaying the conclusions agreed upon by nearly every source I used. In fact, some of my paragraph was cut and pasted directly from the reports and articles referencing the reports themselves with just enough modification to make it flow with grammar, etc. A few quick google searches will confirm this as most are easily accessible by watching the test drive videos, reading the written conclusions, and 3rd party articles based on their conclusions...but you won't get it by just looking at the rankings alone.

So, because Consumer Reports states in the last sentence of the last paragraph of the second page; "the overall scores are relative to tire category" in regards to it's rankings...it seems we can't use them to cross-rank categories. The way I read the Consumer Reports ranking is the Hankook Optimo H727 is ranked highly only as compared to other S and T speed rating all-season tires. We can't even accurately compare them with with all-season tires from the H or V speed rating categories much less the winter tire category. Then again, I could be wrong...I often am. Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert. I am currently logged onto my online Consumer Reports subscription to double check whether I might have missed the part where it says the Optimo H727s outperformed most winter tires but I haven't found it yet...if you could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated as I don't want to mistakenly mis-represent their studies. About as detailed a statement as I can find on the category itself is "these tires offer high levels of performance in most key categories including dry and wet grip, hydroplaning resistance, handling, and an average or better grip on snow and ice." The most enthusiastic endorsement I can find for the #2 ranked Optimo H727 itself with its better than average (for the category) snow traction and ice braking: "A very good choice for drivers looking for one tire that can tackle all weather conditions" (the identical statement made for the #4 ranked Goodyear Assurance TripleTreds which costs more but has only average (for the category) snow traction and ice braking.)

Consumer Reports Online is subscription only but to save a little time here are the main TireRack sources. I wish I had kept track of some of the other sources while I was googling around so I could reference them for you. Maybe I can find them and update this when I do. Hope that helps clarify things!
TireRack Winter
http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=26&tab=winter
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116
http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=23&tab=winter
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=103
http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp#viewAll

 

Your memory of past Consumer Reports tests is excellent. And you are right that in past tire tests, Consumer Reports did not cross rank categories.

But for the first time with the November 2009 tire tests, they did. It says so right on the second page of my attachment of the Consumer Reports November 2009 article.

Under the heading, "How we test tires", it says:

"Starting with these tests, our tire Ratings are now designed so that you can compare the individual performance of one type of tire with another. For example, you can compare the Ratings of all-season and winter tires to see how much dry and wet grip you give up with winter tires in return for better snow and ice traction. The overall score [that's the overall numerical score given each tire], however, is still relative to each tire category."

So, for example, when a S or T speed rated A/S tire like the Hankook Optimo H727 and a winter tire like the Nokian Hakkapelitta R receive a Very Good rating for snow traction and ice braking, this means each performs as well as the other in snow traction and ice braking.

And if you compare the Hankook's snow and ice ratings to those for the 17 winter tires tested, you'll see that the Hankook performs as well or better in snow traction and ice braking than most (12 out of 17) of the winter tires tested.