Visiting a 2001 Prius

Were you aware that by doing that, you were erasing data which could be used to properly diagnose the fault?

It was a waste of time. You have no idea whether or not the test drive duplicated the conditions under which the code was set.

Again, that information would have been found in the data that you erased.

To be blunt, you are going in circles.

 

If you feel that my observations have been in the least bit inaccurate, feel free to point them out.

I won't mind in the least. People deserve accurate information.

While it is quite possible that his vehicle is in need of a new battery pack, your diagnosis has not yet established that. It would be a shame to replace the battery and find that the problem lay elsewhere.

 

The message behind your observations appears to be that unless you are equipped with the Toyota Techstream laptop or equivalent, don't bother trying to diagnose a problem. In that sense, it would be inaccurate.

I agree that it would be more efficient to use that tool for diagnostic purposes. However, the price of that puts it out of reach for a DIYer.

If you are a professional mechanic, time is money so you are interested in the quickest way to solve a problem, to maximize your productivity. Since this is an owners forum, not a mechanics forum, I'm interested in hearing about approaches that may take more time but can still potentially lead to a successful conclusion.

After the DTC and info codes are erased, they'll reappear soon enough if the problem persists. If the owner wants to take the car for dealer service, all s/he has to do is drive the car around until the warning lights reappear. Hence erasure of the DTC is not a big loss.

I'd be interested in your future observations, to the extent that you care to suggest ways to solve a problem that do not require:

1) visiting a Toyota dealer for service or
2) access to the Techstream or equivalent.

 

With all due respect, your assumption is incorrect. Nowhere in this thread did I mention a Techstream or a laptop. Nowhere in this thread did I infer that one cannot diagnose a problem without one.

And rather than criticize the miniscanner gadget, I simply observed that bwilson4web was erasing valuable diagnostic data by erasing the codes after retreiving them. The issue is not the tool, it is a lack of understanding of the tool and of the system to which it is connected.

Sorry, but again, you are basing your assessment on an incorrect assumption. See above.

No, that's not always true. Some DTCs can take hundreds of miles to reappear. This does not necessarily indicate an intermittent issue. Rather, the conditions under which the vehicle's OBD system can accurately distinguish the issue from "noise" may occur very rarely.

This presents a problem. Someone will clear codes and report "fifty miles and no more code!" The forum gurus will pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

But if the code comes back a month later, and the owner of the vehicle takes it to someone to be repaired, and does not report back to the forum... well, you get the idea. Yes, this happens.

I disagree. See above.

Thanks, but I'm already aware that PriusChat is an owner's forum. I tailor my comments to that reality.

To be honest, I'm not posting for your benefit. I'm posting for forum readers who have issues with Gen I vehicles. I've seen a lot of mistakes on this forum in the past few weeks, and have noted with regret that there is surprisingly little interest in correcting those mistakes.

That's a shame, as folks with Gen I vehicles generally have less money to waste getting their vehicles repaired. Remember that some folks will not post, but will simply read archived threads and use the information as they try to repair their own vehicles.

It doesn't help when they read silly statements such as "300V indicates an overcharged battery pack."

Again, I'm not posting for you, and again, I did not suggest anywhere in this thread that the original poster's issue could only be solved by visiting a Toyota dealer for service.

Nor did I say that the problem required access to the Techstream. I regularly see folks diagnose Prius issues far more complex than those presented here, using only service information, a voltmeter, and their ability to think logically.

However, I also know of many issues which—lacking access to the full range diagnostic information recorded by the vehicle when an issue arises—cannot be solved without throwing parts at the vehicle in hopes that "the light will go out." I don't think many folks on this forum are comfortable with that reality.

 

I'll tell you one thing, If you think that taking your car in to a Toyota dealer is better/cheaper/will get a more accurate diagnosis, then I have some fantastic land to sell you! Water view! In Florida. Sure, you might get the codes but then comes the $$$$$ parts-o-rama toss empty your wallet please...

The number of people on this forum and others who get total BS from the dealers is astonishing. I wish someone would do a sting operation on those guys. This forum has more expertise and ethics than the dealers. There may be some honest ones out there somewhere.

I agree that getting all the codes and subcodes and freeze frame data would be a better solution but most people who come here know the limitations and still willingly and with eyes open prefer to go this route than the stealerships, myself included.

It would be good advice to send people to the dealer just to get the codes, freeze frame data etc, If they can extract it from them. Many people don't and that's their right.

Well please, go ahead and correct. I call them if I see them but this is a forum and it ain't perfect. I think most people get that.

 

To begin with, no one in this thread made that specific claim. So I'm not sure what post you are responding to.

That being said, you have issued a blanket statement: one cannot get a more accurate diagnosis by taking your car to a Toyota dealer than by discussing the car with people on this forum. Period. Ever.

Consider that the vast majority of Prius vehicles on the road today have been serviced as well as (in the case of a problem) diagnosed and repaired by technicians who have been trained by Toyota and who work at dealerships. Some will be more competent than others.

Yet you propose to sweep all of that experience away in favor of a small group of enthusiasts who do not have to take responsibility if their online diagnosis doesn't quite work out. To be sure, many of them have some knowledge of the vehicle, and many of them are quite sincere in their efforts. But that doesn't automatically make an entire group of other people into crooks.

It doesn't astonish me at all. Folks generally don't come to the PriusChat forums to report that a diagnosis and repair went well. Often, they are at the end of their rope, or just want to see if they can fix the vehicle themselves. Besides, even if the repair went well, nobody likes to pay for auto repair.

And not every complaint is valid. How many times have you read a post in which the complaint is "Toyota won't replace my part for free after the warranty expired"?

The vast majority of people who are having their Prius diagnosed and repaired do not even know that PriusChat exists. The ones who are satisfied have no reason to post. It is therefore meaningless to try and extract statistics from these forums.

Which person on this forum are you comparing to a dealer? And which dealer are you comparing that person to?

There are ethical and unethical folks in any group. I see unethical behavior here - folks stealing Toyota diagnostic software (wink), folks wanting to fudge the facts and get out-of-warranty issues fixed on Toyota's dime. But it would be silly for me to assume that everyone on PriusChat is like that.

And I must say that to claim that folks on this forum "have more expertise than the average dealer" is quite a stretch.

Oh, there are. But by acknowledging that, you are contradicting your earlier statement.

When you state "most people who come here know the limitations", I disagree. I can clearly see that from just the last week of posts alone.

And if it wasn't for loose comments such as "stealerships", this forum might have attracted one or two technicians who could have used their experience to help others. As it is, they will probably scan the forum, see the prejudice that you and others regularly exhibit, and move on. Good for them.

It is absolutely their right. And many issues can be solved without codes, without freeze frame. But some issues can't be solved without that information. What is the harm in pointing that out?

I strongly disagree with that statement. Some of the folks who portray themselves as possessing diagnostic skills that exceed the skills of the average Toyota hybrid technician are unfortunately the sources of a great deal of misinformation, much of which can waste people's time and money. Yet their advice is often accepted at face value, no matter how much it flies into the face of logic.

And now I have a question for you. A lot of information posted on this forum in the past few weeks has been shown to be false. Yet you haven't complained about the misinformation at all.

Why not?

 

Ahem, I just got interested in correcting misinformation...

Those words are yours. No one else posted that. I'm assuming you were referencing this post by Bob:

How does "I've seen just over 300 V when in heavy regen mode. Not something I'd recommend." become "300V indicates an overcharged battery pack." I'd like to know, Mr. accuracy corrector?

I'm happy with accuracy but not accusations, belittlement and changing words to fit your arguments.

I had the very generous help of the people here when I replaced my transaxle. I like and respect them and I don't think your accusations of indifference to inaccuracy are called for, let alone helpful.

You seem quite knowledgeable and I welcome your help and the respectful addition of your opinion on this forum as it relates to the problems at hand but what you are doing is needlessly pointing fingers, and placing yourself on high with a tone and approach that sometimes comes across as disrespectful and rude. Perhaps you are not aware of that.

That is not what I wrote. You seem to like to rearrange words into your own interpretation of them. Accuracy? Nope!

My vice is sarcasm.

 

Sounds like a fun trip. keep us posted! Good of you to help out like that.

 

No, I wasn't referencing that post at all.

It doesn't. Again, I wasn't referencing or even thinking of that passage.

It appears to me that you are taking me to task for suggesting that bwilson4web has claimed that 300V indicates an overcharged pack. Let's take a look at your complaint:

In response to a report that a pack's modules measure about 7.9V each (corresponding to a pack voltage of about 300V), we read

And in another post, bwilson4web writes:

It seems clear to me that bwilson4web thinks that 300V indicates an overcharged pack.

Unfortunately, that's not true. But let's leave that for another thread, shall we?

You may well be. I honestly can't tell so far.

I have posted a range of technical observations on this forum in the past few weeks. If I think something is wrong, I will say so. If I think someone is wasting their time on a procedure, I will say so.

That's not belittlement. That's my honest opinion. Feel free to give your opinion, as well.

That's great. I have no problem with that.

I had pointed out that a lot of information posted on this forum in the past few weeks has been shown to be inaccurate, and that you hadn't complained about that misinformation at all. However, I didn't accuse you of indifference; indeed, I asked why you have remained silent. I'm still curious about that.

Anyone is welcome to decide for themselves whether or not my characterization is accurate.

That's kind of you to say, but I have not characterized myself as knowledgeable, but have simply laid out my observations to be judged on their own merit.

My technical observations have been related to the problems at hand.

I disagree. Explain to me why it is "needless" to make an effort to provide accurate information. Show me where I have placed myself on high.

Your interpretations of my posts are none of my business. If my posts bother you, ignore them. I won't be offended at all. But it stretches my imagination to believe that you are truly offended by "disrespectful and rude" comments. This forum has seen a lot of sarcastic comments supplied by others (including yourself, remember?), as well as loaded words such as "sociopath" tossed around (and quickly moved to another forum). Given that I don't recall you complaining about any of it, and that you in fact participated, I'm going to have to call BS on this one.

Let's take a look. You had stated:

I had referenced that statement, characterizing it as a "blanket statement that one cannot get a more accurate diagnosis by taking their car to a Toyota dealer than by discussing the car with people on this forum."

To be frank, it looks to me like that was what you were trying to communicate.

 

We all arent millionaires and able to go to the precious Toyota dealer everytime we have a problem. In order to correctly diagnose a problem without a fancy toyota scanner b4wilson took the correct approach.

Again if any problems exist with the hybrid battery they will come back when the system is loaded ( for example putting the car in reverse with handbrakes active, loading the electric motor and battery ).

And of course you can get a more accurate diagnosis by visiting your local Toyota dealer $$$$$, but we would much rather figure out the problem ourselves.

 

so the re involt pack is a 2004 und up modules in a gen 1 model battery pack housing?
or litium bases something?

 

Nice work, Bob.

Does "full charge" mean 100% or four bars, on the SOC gauge?

What is the purpose of the red plastic wrap? Does that prevent tampering during the Re-InVolt warranty period, or is there some other reason for that packaging?

Since the 2G has 28 modules (vs. 38 for Classic), I assume that the weight of that battery assembly will be ~75% of the weight of the Classic battery assembly?