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Worse than Hybrid System Warning Light!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by BigED, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. BigED

    BigED New Member

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    I wonder if I'll win a prize for this one.

    I've been searching all over, and this might be my best shot.

    My Hybrid System Warning light, red triangle with exclamation, and Check Engine light all went off at the same time.

    Couple seconds later, not only do I get forced into a "neutral" roll (which, as it just so happens, I had enough momentum to get me into a gas station parking lot), but it completely shuts down on me.

    I try to turn it back on, and for about a second, the box outlines of where P, N, D, B, are start flashing (without the letters!), and it immediately "clicks" off, with the light within the power button glowing orange on and off.

    Then came that weird burnt electrical smell....

    I suspect it must be some sort of electrical component, as there was no rough engine noise or anything, just those warning light, then a few seconds later, the engine shutdown, followed by a complete electrical shutdown...

    It's going to a Toyota dealer tomorrow, but boy, I'm really worried something "big" went on this one.

    Anyone here experience this?
     
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  2. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    I'm not sure of your exact problem, but the flashing of the combo meter (the P N D B indicator) is an indication that the communication network is malfunctioning.

    Hopefully the burnt electrical smell was a fusible link somewhere rather than an expensive ECU. Good luck.
     
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  3. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    This is what a real electronics failure looks (and smells) like.

    Good luck.
     
  4. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Good luck, and please let us know what is found.
     
  5. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Just wondering if you'd had you had any work done on the car recently?
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I noticed your other post in this forum regarding a mouse infestation problem two years ago. I recommend you call this to the attention of the service writer, including the location of the dead mouse.

    Maybe the mouse gnawed away at wiring insulation and after normal vibration and further wear, a wire (or two) finally shorted out yesterday. Good luck, pls let us know the outcome.
     
  7. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    !! Patrick rules!
     
  8. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    I hate those meeces to pieces.
     
  9. BigED

    BigED New Member

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    Update:

    Well, the dealer is telling us:

    1. The 12V batter needs to be replaced, and
    2. The inverter cooler needs to be replaced.

    What the heck?! Could the inverter cooler go "out" at the same time as the 12V battery? If so, is this particular cooler considered part of the drivetrain and under the umbrella of the some sort of drivetrain warranty (I'm not quite sure where I got it from, but isn't aren't the hybrid components under warranty up to 100K miles? (assuming this falls under that particular warranty realm)).

    So I guess, in the end, the Mouse was not to blame, but an intriguing theory nonetheless.

    Thanks to all whom have shared their perspectives upon my woe!
     
  10. BigED

    BigED New Member

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    None.

    At least, within the last 30K miles or so (we purchased the car with 60 some odd thousand miles, it's now at 98k).
     
  11. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Assuming that means "inverter coolant pump", and if recall correctly that the DC-DC converter is inside the inverter assembly, then it might not be coincidence. But that would have required the converter to be not working for some time, long enough for the battery to be drained, so maybe the battery was near death anyway. For peace of mind you might get a second opinion at another dealer. Or if you have a voltmeter check the voltage yourself at the jump point under the hood.

    The coolant pump is not under the drive train warranty. Even so if the inverter itself is undamaged then this will be relatively cheap, but I wonder about the source of the bad smell...
     
  12. northwichita

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    I had a brief puff of smoke along with a burning smell when my car stopped , the cause was also a bad inverter cooling pump ( at 110 k ) . The electronics overheats without the cooling until it has to shut down.
    I've always had the suspicion the smoke was from something else (a small fuse was also out, in my case I had really questionable servicing, so it could have also been due to a fusible link going, I wasn't able to talk to the mechanic who did the actual work).

    I try to avoid dealerships, partly due to this, plus I like working on cars. My car has been running well, mostly, for these next 60 k miles.

    Also , about the battery, I doubt these two are related, if you want to nurse it along more, you could just give it a long trickle charge and see if it's okay, its probably below dealer's specs, and they do like business. If you need the peace of mind, replace it.
     
  13. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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  14. BigED

    BigED New Member

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    Wow, this board is truly a tremendous resource! Well, my significant other already gave them the ok to replace it, and the battery. All for the small price of about $900. I suppose in the end, when you factor my time into it, it's close to worth it, and it'll be ready, probably, by the end of day tomorrow.

    That being said, however, looks like I should do mine (we both have '04's) and mine is already at the 117K mark)) before it flops in some horribly inconvenient place.

    Thanks a ton for that link dogfriend, that post might have actually saved us some fairly significant dealer labor costs.
     
  15. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Actually in this case, *if* the dealer is right [with appropriate
    asteroid of salt] it almost sounds like the DC/DC converter could have
    failed in a way that had it producing *overvoltage* for a while and
    possibly placing electrical stress on other parts. Let's hope it's
    not that, though, as numerous other expensive bits could have been
    letting their own magic smoke out under such a scenario.
    .
    The inverter I tore down had what was said to be a "fairly typical"
    failure -- of the DC/DC converter, and you can see a few burnt
    components around parts that regulate the 12V charging output in
    my pictures. But that stuff specifically is contained inside the
    under-cover of the inverter, so it's not likely a driver would smell
    stuff from there until it was opened up.
    .
    _H*
     
  16. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Let us know how it turns out ED. :)
     
  17. BigED

    BigED New Member

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    Well, time for the update, with a new dimension.

    Well, they replaced the inverter pump and battery, all to the tune of $739. When I looked within the engine compartment, saw the shiny new screws, I was like, "I could have done that myself...", but alas, the situation simply wasn't right (lots of factors, the car was relatively far from home, etc., it was just "easier" this way).

    Now, for the new dimension I didn't previously mention; when the car was towed to the dealership, the kid on Saturday night tow duty, was inexperienced with anything other than pulling up cars onto a flatbed. Long and short, he actually "dropped" the car! Wasn't too bad, just fell out of the tow bar at barely walking speed as he had misjudged the angle of the tow arm, and the driveway out of the gas station was a relatively steep incline.

    Anyway, he had these big magnetic turn signals placed at the top of each side of the hatchback, with this thick cable between the signal casings, resting loosely maybe six inches behind the antenna.

    You can probably see where this is going.

    Well, car popped off, and in that instant moment it took the kid to realize what happened and hit the brake, the signals pulled right off the car, snapping the antenna at the base.

    Now, I was irate, but I didn't let him verbally have it. I was with him as he mounted and double checked everything, he was just a kid, and I could tell he was trying hard to get everything right. Obviously, I'm not a tow operator, so the only part I couldn't notice anything wrong with, was the angle of the tow bar, I have no idea what the "ideal" setting is, nor could I really tell by "eyeballing it", if it was indeed going to be close. On top of that, he had this absolute look of horror on his face, and I knew yelling would only make the situation worse. Plus, there was the fact we still had to get the car to the dealership, and he was, quite clearly, tense.

    To his credit, he apologized profusely, and radioed his boss with his tale of woe. I felt so bad for the kid, he flat out said he was done for, and was certain this night would be his last amongst the world of the employed. I told him not to worry, I'd call his boss up and encourage him not to fire him over a stupid antenna, that I'd pitch out the $40 or $50 to replace it, there are too many unemployed these days, and I simply didn't want someone's job to vanish over a couple of bucks. Next morning, called the owner, and encouraged him not to give the kid the ax.

    Fast forward >>>>>>>>>

    Now, I checked out the damage. The antenna got whacked about an inch north from where it met the roof. I peered into the cavity, and saw a circuit board. It was seemingly in tact, with the remainder of the antenna dangling not more than an inch or two away from this 12 or 14 gauge black wire going into the hole.

    The punch line:

    Here I was thinking I'd just super glue the thing back on, or buy a replacement for $40/$50 bucks, maybe even close to $100 at most.

    Cost to replace antenna:

    $780.00 USD

    MORE than the battery and inverter!

    Apparently, the deal was, that black wire got pulled out from the amp, and to replace it appropriately they would have to remove the headliner, and wire it down through. Or so they say.

    Well, to the towing company's credit, they owned up, and PAID for it. Poor guy gave the dealer like $500 or so in check form, then the remainder in cash. I almost picture him reaching way down into the front pockets of his dirty jeans, the last few dollar bills crumpled, along with the change from his morning coffee grudgingly slapped onto the counter.

    Whether or not the kid got fired, I've no idea. I suppose I can call and ask for him, and see what they say.
     
  18. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    They should have insurance to cover something like this. Auto repair shops have coverage for mishaps like this, I would think that a towing service would also.
     
  19. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Well writen story. Thanks for the heads up on that Antennae.
    I would have thought it was $50 tops too....ouch.

    Since you seem pretty handy check out the trans fluid next. If you haven't changed it in your's or her's its way overdue. Search posts here and the top of the page transaxle threads too. Its a good thing to keep up on fluid maintenance wise.

    The t-axle is very very expensive and easily maintained.

    Better luck!!!
     
  20. BigED

    BigED New Member

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    Thank you! Much appreciated, but I did change the transaxle fluid already :) I think I did mine at somewhere around 85K, and her's at around 70K.