2010 Toyota Prius vs Honda Civic EX-L nonhybrid

You might be interested in the 1st three lists I posted at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...s-best-worst-lists-april-2010-auto-issue.html. You can use Google as your calculator to help convert between American units and yours. (e.g. [ame="http://www.google.com/search?q=55+mpg+in+L+per+100+km&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a"]55 mpg in L per 100 km - Google Search[/ame])

To quote from one of my (admittedly US-centric) posts elsewhere:
Buying a hybrid doesn't need to be ONLY about saving $. How about recapturing and repurposing energy that otherwise becomes useless brake dust and heat? How about getting longer brake pad life? (many Prius owners have gone 100K+ miles on the original pads) How about emitting less CO2 and pollutants into the air? How about not needlessly running an internal combustion engine (ICE) while idling and not propelling you. How about using less of a non-renewable resource, much of which comes from volatile regions or countries that don't like us (well, the US) much?

As for no expensive battery or inverters to worry about after 10 years... well, it seems like Honda transmissions aren't the best either. They got a bad rep w/Accord, Odyssey, Acura CL and TL transmissions in the early 2000s. Also, although CVTs aren't used in their non-hybrids, a # of Honda hybrids at Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity - Hybrid Electric Vehicles needed new transmissions and cats at ~90K miles.

 

I add my voice to the others here who are saying "HONDA--BRING BACK THE CIVIC HATCH!" To the OP, another question you might ask yourself or put into your list of pros/cons: Do you prefer a stick? If so, forget the Prius. I like my Prius a lot, but I have to say, it is the first non-manual I've owned and I miss having a stick. Except when stuck in traffic. Which is a lot of the time around here...

Good luck w/ your decision--both are fine cars.
~T

 

True story: Ten years ago, had a friend who was a financial analyst. He made a complex spreadsheet and modeled every variable, studied, researched, and concluded that the best car was a GM Saturn.

So he bought a BMW.

I was mostly interested in Toyota Camry. It's a more
economical choice than
Prius; holds my family better, cruises on the freeway better, and the total cost of ownership may be less than Prius.

But every time I get in my Prius, I smile. I don't know why. It's the highest technology car in the world. I'm sticking it to the oil companies every time I drive. I like the car... I bought the absolute base model, and I'm gradually upgrading it myself, which is also fun.

If you drive both Prius and Civic, buy the car that makes you happier.

 

You made a very good comparison yourself. If I were you and expect a lot of highway driving, I would go for Honda. It makes more economic sense for you, it has excellent reliability track record and it handles better. Civic is better highway car than a Prius, no doubt of that.

For the Prius speaks the "geek factor", relatively roomy hatchback design and much better city fuel economy. But in your situation, I think the assets of the Civic overweights those of the Prius.

 

Just as a heads up, my uncle bought a Civic EX new. The car is smaller, the ride is harsher, also the car is much noisier. I personally hate it, but it's Honda and it will be good for 300K miles

 

It seems that Honda's havent' changed. I had a '99 Civic EX - 2dr manual. Fun car to drive after I upgraded the suspension & threw on summer tires. However the road noise was pretty bad. Ppl complain about the Prius - it was nothing compared to that loud car. Car door seals let in air at highway speeds with a rushing wind noise as well. The Prius is very peaceful in comparison.

 

IMO and to the best of my knowledge Honda makes a 5 dr Civic (hatchback) for the European market
In Israel Honda sells the 4 dr non hybrid, 4 dr hybrid and 5 dr non hybrid
Danny​

 

I know you stated you are not a fan of the Honda IMA system, but picking the regular Civic EXL and using it as a direct alternative to the Prius is perhaps over-stretching a bit.

In Canada, the HCH costs about the same as the Prius and depending on the Province you are in you may get up to $2000 back from the province if you buy either the Prius or HCH.

When comparing the Prius to the HCH, the Prius wins hands down in so many areas, especially if your commuting is done in a predominantly urban setting and the temperatures are not too low.

However, if you driving within the posted speed limits and on the highway the HCH-II is simply the better option especially if you enjoy tapping into its fantastic abilities. It it still the best kept secret for anyone who enjoys to use the least amount of fuel on the highway.

For instance, getting 2.8-3.4 L/100km while doing 90-100km/h (70-90 MPG US @55-65 MPH) is one the things the HCH shines at and may be a better indication of personal ownership potential if this is to remain your driving regimen.

Yes, the Civic EXL is cheaper, but it is a far noisier car with lesser aerodynamics and with far less equipment. Because it is more common in the used car market, it also offers lower resale value potential than the hybrid. Also look at the safety equipment, the HCH has more (like VSA, traction control, and much more).
After a while, the lesser number of oil changes, brake jobs and the rest may put you financially ahead in the civic hybrid.

I suggest that if you go Honda you consider the hybrid, but if you want the best overall hybrid then pick the Prius.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

last I checked, the '09 HCH had a very slow 0-60 of 13.9 seconds. Thats really rather bad, I think my '95 Ford Escort still had a faster 0-60 of around 11-12 seconds or so. This will at least matter for entrance ramps on the highway wouldn't you think?

 

13.9+ seconds ?

Yes, with a depleted SoC and under the abuse of an aggressive driver.

It scores 12.1 sec (not fast either) with normal SoC at the hands of a safe and law abiding driver.

Cheers

 

Don't underestimate the cargo volume of the Prius especially when the rear seats are folded down. I have fit a twins size mattress.

 

Also, the 2010 Prius has no belts to replace. There's literally a pulley w/nothing connected to it.

The 1st part is actually mine.

Fine, but lets go back to CO2 and pollutants. I can't speak to the specs that Canadian Civics and Priuses are rated for but per Sorted Basic Search Results | Green Vehicle Guide | US EPA, lookup greenest vehicles, check both checkboxes, 2010, California, you'll find the non-hybrid and non-CNG Civics get a 6 or 7 on the EPA pollution score vs. a 9.5 of the Prius. You can click on the cars to see what these pollutant limits correspond to (look under Standards and Smog-forming pollution) and also what they are.

CO2 wasn't classified by the EPA as a pollutant until recently, so that relates to the greenhouse gas score. On this chart, the automatic Civic is estimated to emit 5.1 tons/year of CO2 (based on their driving cycle, which isn't all highway) vs. the Prius' 2.97 tons/year. Emission Facts: Average Carbon Dioxide Emissions Resulting from Gasoline and Diesel Fuel | US EPA lists the # of pounds of CO2 emitted per gallon burned.

Since you state you're doing mostly highway, I suppose you could use the CR figures of 43 mpg highway for the Civic vs. 55 mpg highway for the Prius and calculate the weight of CO2 you'll emit for a given distance.

BTW, to make your responses to various posts easier to read (yes, quoting can be a pain), while typing, you can select the text you wanted quoted and then click the yellow ballon/caption button sort of close to the center of the toolbar. It'll surround that text w/the right tags.

 

Hmmm, you sure the Civic is a better highway car than a 2010 Prius?

The '10 Civic I test drove would let quite a bit of noise through on rougher pavement, not really well insulated. It was alright, but I wasn't blown away. The power and responsive steering are more attractive...

The tiny trunk / lack of cargo hold is not.

 

Not surprised .... so many Americans seem infatuated with cars that have trunks. If they want hatchback, they look quickly to SUV's.

There are smaller 4 door hatchbacks, trouble is, they are not that great to me - Golf, Mazda3, Matrix, Impreza, Versa, Spectra, HHR, Caliber, PT Cruiser, Astra (I guess not made anymore) .... these are ok , but not great.

Prius, IMO, trumps the list above.

There are finer choices in European 4 door hatches - Audi A3, A4, BMW, Mercedes, but then you're way up over $30k.

 

To the OP,

You mentioned you want to put a cage up behind the driver's seats for the dogs ...

I might get slammed for this, but

I peered at a Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen today ... the cargo area behind driver's seats is fairly large, definitely larger than a 2010 Prius. You could look into the TDI Sportwagen diesel which has pretty high fuel economy (definitely over 30 mpgs average). I can't speak for reliability and all, but this may be an option for you.

 

Introduced in 2006:







It is a 5-door - the rear passenger door handles are hidden in the bottom rear corner of the door window. As you see the styling is radical - Honda were trying to shake off a staid image.

To me, the Civic Hybrid looks nothing like a Civic! I've seen some HCH around, so they're selling a few, but they'd likely sell more if it looked like that! On the other hand, they could be selling because the hybrid is the only 4-door saloon variant sold in the UK.

 

I know what you mean about people roaming around in huge SUVs. You can try to lobby for greener laws and force them to change or pay a SUV tax, or whatever. But you can't force people to change. All you can do is lead by example. One thing you can count on is that most people are like sheep. Once a certain fad reaches a critical mass, they tend to follow. Look at iPods, Yoga, recycling, physical exercise, or not smoking. As if people didn't know exercise was good for them 20 years ago. Now it's cool for moms to do it.

I looked at the Venza too. I presume you're not considering the V6 models. Still, 19" tires are expensive. Even if you stepped down to 17" for winters, it's still a big hit. You just have to accept the price of being a dog owner.