Nissan Leaf vs Prius

OY VAY

(Yidish expresion for "I can't believe this bullcrap I am reading")

 

I'd love to get involved in this pointless argument, but I need to ride my bike home before it gets dark.
(What if there's an eclipse during my ride home? What if my tire goes flat, my hand-pump doesn't work and there's no bike store around? What if I decide to take a trip to Nevada to see the lack of gas stations? Obviously buying a bicycle is my worst idea ever.)

 

Ditto. Watch and be amazed... I'm going to uncharacteristally sit on my hands.

 

LOL Walk home. But you might get run over.

 

So with your Prius's 500-mile range, you limit yourself to 50 mile trips max? Sheesh...

I take it you've never paid for parking downtown on a weekday? Not to mention how much longer it takes vs commuter rail? SHeeeeesh...

They will - I don't see any numbers for the Volt either, and it's supposed to be in production around the same time.

Well duh. You don't get 50mpg in a Prius doing 113mph either. But it's not like you only get 100 miles from a full tank at that speed either.

SHEEEESH...

You pay $25K + insurance for a NON-ev. And it costs more to operate, so where's your economics?

Sorry, but I can't read between your lines - they seem to curve to avoid reality...

 

Slide over; I'm going to sit next to you.

Tom

 

Yes, no doubt they would do even more by driving EVs. But is that a reason not to do what you can?

I say lucky for me most of my power doesn't come from coal. Also, as your grid gets cleaner, so will an EV running off that grid, automatically.

Is your position so weak that you must misrepresent the arguments against it?
I never said an EV is "pollution free", what I said is they will cut down on smog. So, 'localized pollution' might be a bit closer to what I said.
I also have said a number of times that EV's aren't for everyone and I don't expect the entire light vehicle fleet to switch over in a year.
I also never said I expect it to be 'free' so why you said "Sorry pal, but nothin' aint free" I am not sure.

Well, will the specific maintenance costs for the Leaf have yet to be seen, the track record of other EV's seems to be pretty good. Of course, how well they are built will always have a major affect on those costs.
An electric motor is far more efficient than an ICE and has far far fewer moving parts to cause trouble. Your 5-8 years number is interesting, as is your cost. I thought maintenance costs were yet to be seen?
What if the batteries last 10-12 years and cost $1000?

There are a ton of good reasons that an EV would not be for a particular individual. The fact that you are saddled with such a long commute (don't know how you stand that) is a great reason it isn't for you.
The need to tow or haul heavy loads would be another. Some others you have already mentioned are quite valid (apartment dwellers or one car families). But to assume there isn't a large enough market beyond those people is well... myopic.

 

sooo, Bigdog?? where do u live?

 

while I sit here... quietly... on my hands, next to Tom... I wonder: How much longer can we sustain our way of life if all decision are made on "what's the cheapest way to do things?"

 

to answer that question, i am afraid, i must turn back the hands of time.

we past that point several years ago. 1/6th of adults are underemployed.

in some areas of the country, 2/5th are underwater on their mortgage

the thought of "sustainable government" is no longer definable.

the list goes on and on.

 

Well, we wouldn't have the Prius. We also wouldn't have gotten involved in WWII if we thought like that back then. Or gone to the moon. Or for that matter even discovered the Americas or invented cars. But there's also a lot of experiments that crashed and burned. There are people that are resistant to change and there are others that realize things can be made better, but really you need both to make sure you don't go pell-mell down the wrong path (like an all-out push towards fuel cell vehicles, which at one point I thought was a feasible cure-all).

 

Dave and Nerfer: Two excellent responses!

 

Darell, would you stop squirming. I'm trying to sit here quietly, but you are making it hard to do.

Tom

 

Sorry. I get nervous sitting this close to you. You're a good looking man, Mr. q.

 

I wish you wouldn't say that while wearing spandex.

Tom

 

To participate in the Silver State Challenge, of course!

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_State_Classic_Challenge]Silver State Classic Challenge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

Do you? Geez.

You know jack about what I do. But what I'd be willing to bet is, given your and my locations, I spend far more time (and money) on mass transit on a monthly basis, than you probably have ever spent your entire life. Geez.

This question was asked - several times. So what were the conditions under which 100 mile range was estimated? Geez.

Get back to me when you can speak about reliability of the Leaf, or when your battery needs repalcing in 6 years (warrenty is 5).

But you really should pay attention - I ALREADY own a G3, so the economics is - why would I want to buy yet another car that has limited utility, such as the Leaf?? Real simple concept, geez.

..and you sir, completely chose to ignore it.

 

...and yet your state ranks 20th in terms of coal use. 62% of Minnesota's electricity comes from COAL: What is Your State's Role in Coal? ~ All About Coal ~ American Coal Foundation

And while burnimg coal has gotten "cleaner", it's still very dirty/polluting.

My position is not "weak". Quite the contrary. As I said - much of the pollution on the East Coast comes from burning coal/fossil fuel.

...and so have I...said that EV's aren't for everyone. Free in the sense of "polution free"...which many on here have used this term. It's NOT polution "free".

Define what you mean by efficiency? Please include in your calcultation the conversion and storage of electrical power. Every time to convert, store, and then use one form of energy, it's an inefficient process. Show me the ENTIRE process?

I read that Nissan will warrenty the battery for 5 years. I suspect it will last much longer than that...however, what is the degredation in battery capacity after 6 or 7 years of use. Does the range then drop to something far less useful? The battery is not likely to just stop working after 6-7 years, but I'd bet my next paycheck the capacity won't be anywhere near what it was when new. If there are any problems/issues with the battery on the Leaf, you are dead in the water. That's the point.

As far as the maintenance on the ICE - there's little to none on today's modern engines. I worry not about my G3's ICE going bad...I worry more about all the other electrical components failing long before I do with then engine.

LOL. Show me where I said that? Show me? I'll wait....waiting.

 

EVs are pollution free at the source of propulsion, which in this case is an electric motor. They are not pollution free when considering electrical generation, tires, manufacturing, and all of the other dust to dust factors. To have an apples to apples comparison, we also need to include these dust to dust factors for gasoline powered cars. A lot of additional pollution comes from the extraction, refinement, and transportation of gasoline. Generally most people ignore these factors and focus only on what come out of the tailpipe.

Tom