Toyota suspends sales of Lexus GX 460

I guess I'm missing it, but what else would you do if you found yourself on an unfamiliar ramp which was badly designed with a decreasing turn radius and your speed had been OK for the larger radius -- other than let off the gas?

 

Not that I disagree, but I've never been in that situation in over 200,000 miles of driving two SUVs, because I knew better. I still can't get over how much better the GX 460 did than my Blazer would do...

Maybe we need to get more serious about drivers licensing. Why can I drive a bus-based motor home without a special license? Why can I drive a top heavy, high center-of-gravity SUV without a special license? I have to have a special license for a motorcycle or a commercial truck or bus... just saying.

 

While your first statement has some truth to it and the American Gov't ridiculed the American Auto Companies in hearings not to long ago..To start making products for the future..Your next statements need an accorded response.

The #1 spending country in the world is- AMERICA
The #1 Buyer of cars in the world is -AMERICA
The #1 Buyer of foreign product in the world is - AMERICA
The #1 country that stands to be effected the most in poor foreign quality control is -AMERICA

You see, we AMERICANS should have the most to say about things ...While other countries treat their people like sheep...Thank god for watchdogs like The Consumer Reports, a consumer watchdog with an impeccable reputation for many years. Also, in AMERICA anybody that feels that his reputation is be-smudged can take it to court. Perhaps Toyota should take The Consumer Reports to task...Or would they fear that they would get egg in the face.

People like you that have put Toyota on a pedestal on the facts that only you, yourself , have gathered..With the current revelations and perhaps new revelations, Toyota is allot closer to our AMERICAN auto companies and perhaps thats where they should of been in the first place .

God Bless America !

 

I think there are two things to keep in mind when evaluating this situation. #1, that it appears to be a problem with VSC and it's timing. #2, that Toyota responded by suspending sales.

Keeping in mind #1, I would say that it probably means the Lexus GX 460 has all the strengths and weaknesses of any similarly designed SUV of similar size. This isn't being evaluated as a flaw in suspension or body design or even directly operated vehicle systems, this is being evaluated as a flaw in how VSC reacts in a specific emergency or non-typical situation. My pure speculation is much like the software update to change the feel and reaction of the 2010 Prius Brakes, the VSC software of the 460 will ultimately be updated to remedy this problem.

Keeping in mind #2, I think you can debate motive, agenda, CR, Toyota, your love of SUV's, Your Hate of SUV's...forever. If you didn't like SUV's before this news, you still aren't going to like them today. If Toyota had come out and denied any problem, then I think there is room for debate, but Toyota's reaction of suspension of sales tells me that they are recognizing that there is a problem.

Having said that, Toyota is in a tight corner right now. Imagine Consumer Reports placing a "dangerous do not buy" label on a vehicle and Toyota denying any problem. It would result in a They Say...We Say....situation and in light of Toyota's recent problems and recommitment to safety and quality there is no way Toyota wins that PR battle. You can't release a campaign saying you've redoubled your efforts to manufacture safe, quality automobiles and then ignore or deny a problem as reported by Consumer Reports.

From what I can tell from a very limited amount of information this is a serious problem but one that probably will be fixed relatively easily. It is, of course, continued horrible PR for Toyota. But the debate as to SUV's as a whole or individual driving skills is basicly a waste of time. Consumer Reports evidently revealed a problem and Toyota reacted in best possible way for themselves and consumers.

Toyota itself has admitted that they have suffered as a result of growing too quickly. It's my opinion that that is at the crux of all their recent woes. However it is also my opinion that Toyota honestly recognizes this problem and is moving to improve and adapt.

This has been a horrible time period for Toyota, but one that hopefully with the passage of time results in a new and improved Toyota Motors Corporation.

 

Iceman, why is any slight criticism of anything American taken as a total attack on your country? You are clearly patriotic and that's great. One thing Americans are on the whole is partiotic and I wish my fellow countrymen were to the same degree.

What I was getting at is that why the uproar on yet another Toyota product? Perhaps Toyota have some issues or perhaps this vehicle does - no smoke without fire, but I just find it hard to believe that yet another Toyota product is found to be bad, yet again only in America.

Other motoring organisations around the world have not found this issue. My understanding is that Germany and Sweden both have very strict handling testing for SUV's and I would be curious what their findings would be here.

 

My nephew just suggested the possibility of a "malcontent" within the NipponDenso, Denso US, programming department. All of these recent events could well result from an intentional but well hidden flaw in the firmware. Might even "self-destruct" once activated leaving no evidence.

 

I'm suggesting it's all because of solar flares...

:bolt:

 

Apparently, Toyota believes the difference between the 4 Runner and the GX 460 is the V-8 engine in the latter that works differently with the VSC.

Toyota Prado Not Caught in Lexus GX 460 Sales Freeze - autoevolution

I think Toyota reacted appropriately in this case. Time will tell if this is a poor decision made by Lexus engineers or a genuine mistake, but I trust the Japanese to work on solving the problem, not fixing blame.

But I hope that the new and improved Toyota Motors Corporation can move away from making vehicles like this. Not that the CAFE standards aren't going to do that to some degree. Not only are SUVs inefficient fuel-wise (although the Escape and Mariner hybrids are getting there), they are Unsafe At Any Speed for most drivers.

 

My link might explain it. I'm just guessing, but I bet the European model doesn't have the V-8 engine that Americans think they need.

 

I feel the VSC in my FJ Cruiser kicks in way too early. But clearly, this sort of hiccup should have shown up in advanced testing done in-house, not by a third party that results in major egg-on-face

 

Just ordered my Lexus GX 460. Should be coming in 4 days.

 

Ouch! Hey now. I've taken classes at class at a performance driving school at a track and another similar course put on by a local Alfa Romeo club. People spin out at the track too while lapping. It doesn't mean they don't know how to drive.

It's called, being in a hurry to make to not run a red light while turning left while it was wet out at an intersection that I don't regularly visit and not being prepared that it along w/the weight transfer would cause me to spin out.

Without stability control, when in a situation where it might kick in (if the car had it), the driver cannot take the exact measures that it'd apply (e.g. apply braking to an individual wheel to help it thru a turn).

Same goes for ABS. Sure, one can threshold brake, but if you had the left half of the car on wet pavement and the right on dry, hard braking in an emergency on a car w/no ABS would cause you to spin out. The driver can't reduce braking power to half his brakes.

 

4 days? Is it waiting at the port?

 

[EDIT] As Malorn said...
The GX 460 is based on the 4Runner. It's a 4Runner with the new 4.6L V8 and a Lexus interior. The new 4Runner in turn is based on the worldwide Land Cruiser Prado platform as is the FJ Cruiser.

 

Consumer Reports is a very independent organization, and they didn't do this lightly, or without a strong reason, those that say this is a government conspiracy or that somehow Consumer Reports is biased, haven't followed Consumer Reports over the years, they have been very pro foreign vehicles for the most part.

 

CR is independent but they employ human beings to review products. They do a good job on most products, but they are biased, as are we all. Over the last 30 years, they have been very pro Japanese vehicles. They've tended to be pro Toyota, but as Hondas have become more like they think cars should drive they've shifted towards Honda. They like BMWs more than Mercedes-Benzs. Now they're saying nice things about Hyundai. I notice because I'm fine with a nice smooth, comfy ride and CR's auto staff are not.

The secret to consumer success is to know where reviewers are coming. I trust what CR has to say about GM or Honda quality more than what GM or Honda tell me. I read what customers say on the web and otherwise. I read the auto magazines.

I do similar things whether I'm looking for a new washing machine or big screen TV.

I do know that Consumer Union and Ralph Nader did found the Center for Auto Safety in 1970. I don't know if there any connections at this time between Consumer Union and Ralph Nader and his associates.

For now, I'm going to believe that there is a problem as described by CR (and not the media's misreporting) and that it can be fixed simply enough.

 

History:

Historians teach us that the only thing people learn from history, is that they never learn from history. Thus, we keep on making the same dumb mistakes, month after month, year after year, decade after decade. That said ~ here's what we forgot, from just seven years ago.

Bigger isn't better: dispelling the myth of the safe SUV - Lay Of The Land | Sierra | Find Articles at BNET

So what if Toyota stops making their land barge. There are plenty of other high center of gravity land barges for CR to bag on. Lawd only knows GM will be more than happy to pick up the slack building these higher than average, roll over hazard vehicles. It's a win win.

.

 

It is also GM profit margin. Big Toyota vehicles make a bunch of money that doesn't go into GM profits.

Bob Wilson

 

Let's hope they didn't copy the fender bulges and cracks that are showing up in the FJ

 

It seems that even vehicles with stability control are subject to the laws of physics.