2001 hybrid battery issues

1. When working properly, both the positive and negative traction battery terminals are isolated from ground. DTC P3009 means that the traction battery ECU has detected a high voltage leak to ground. This might be due to electrolyte leaking from a battery module, thus causing a path to ground. That DTC might also be caused by a fault in the traction battery ECU itself, the battery cable, the inverter or transaxle.

The risk to you is that if you somehow managed to contact a high voltage cable while also in contact with the car body, then you might get zapped.

2. If you are not worried about #1, then you could keep driving the car.

3. I suggest that you contact your local independents who specialize in Toyota vehicles (since they have the greatest likelihood of access to Toyota repair docs and test equipment) to see if you can find a shop willing to do the battery swap. Good luck.

 

Hi new poster, sorry you have this problem.

Can you find out if this vehicle has had the SSC40G? The Toyota shop should be able to determine that from the VIN #. If not this is supposed to be free forever, and now sounds like a good time.

I will hazard the opinion that a voltage leak (related to electrical leak) within the HV battery assembly is more likely than the other sources Patrick mentioned.

The only way to get the HV battery replaced absolutley free is by calling 800-331-4331 and pleading your case. We used to be reasonably successful in post-warranty gifts there, by that is probably drying up now. Still it is worth the call. Perhaps a few calls. Please ask about their battery rebuilding program which was mentioned at:

Toyota: Reconditioning Can Extend Hybrid Battery Life

The whole new battery price is probably in the range you mention, but it is certainly worth the effort to scout around Toyota shops for a better deal. But first a bit more diagnosis is certainly appropriate.

Other options include a ebay or carparts.com used battery and DIY swap. Or, a rebuild by reinvolt, unfortunately not in your neighborhood. Or something else that may be presented in subssequent replies.

Please keep us up to date on this and we shall assist if possible.

 

How are you set for a work shop?

Do you feel comfortable working with power electronics and have a set of metric tools?

Any friends to help?

Is this your only vehicle or do you have a backup?

The reason I ask is depending upon your situation, do it yourself is possible if you have the resources and self-confidence.

Bob Wilson

 

If the high voltage leak is the only problem your car has, then you could drive it indefinitely, if you are unconcerned about the potential safety issues involved.

 

The high voltage battery cables have orange insulation and run from the battery, under the car, to the inverter. If you look under the car on the driver's side, you should see translucent white plastic running the length of the car. The cables are within.

When you open the hood, you'll see the orange high voltage cables leading from the inverter to MG1 and MG2. Those carry 3-phase high voltage AC. You can also see the traction battery cables as they enter the inverter.

 

You can see one end of the high voltage cables at the inverter under hood. The other end that comes out of the battery is found behind the rear seat. But these cables are normally disconnected from the well protected batteries inside the battery case:

• each cable end has a relay that requires 12 V. battery power to close - disconnect the 12 V battery and the battery case is safe.
• the orange safety interlock - a switch located in the middle of the pack, pull it and the battery pack is electrically two, independent banks

I would recommend using Google and search for "Prius battery" and look at the images. But I agree that the P3009, a leakage, can probably be tolerated for a while but it is consistent with a long term problem of battery electrolyte loss. The reason I asked about your own repair capabilities is the battery could be pulled, the case removed, and then see if the electrolyte corrosion can be found, cleaned and reassembled ... a temporary fix.

Having bought the car, I'm sure you're not looking forward to another expense. However, you might look at "Re-InVolt" as a lower cost alternative if you can do it yourself or hire an independent mechanic to handle the swap.

In the meanwhile, there are a few 'rules of thumb' to minimize traction battery stress:

• avoid heavy regeneration - use "B" when descending hills taller than ~500 ft.
• avoid heavy regeneration - try to coast down rather than brake down from highway speeds
• drive to avoid braking - a good fuel economy technique, avoiding use of the brake is also gentle on the traction battery

GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

 

Hi Bob,

Although the system main relays should disconnect the traction battery when the car is IG-OFF, I'd suggest that a voltmeter be used to verify no voltage is present on the cables before they are handled for two reasons: 1) the electrolytic capacitors in the inverter will hold high voltage for a brief period after the car is powered down, and 2) there is a small likelihood that the SMRs might be stuck in the closed position.

 

As improbable as it may be, I have no problem with testing with a volt meter. But it isn't clear that the OP is a "do it yourself" or has a mechanic friend to help. Should the voltmeter come back as millivolts at the two HV terminals, it is mostly safe. However, if the leak or leaks to ground are active, there may be, if the relays are also defective, some voltage relative to one or both of the terminals to the case.

The P3009 is a leak to ground, which would by-pass the relays. But the relays isolate the battery terminals, which are available outside the case. However, it should be a fairly high resistance path.

Long term, leaks are bad because if there are two or more leaks, it will lead to an unbalanced charge between the modules. This can fail the traction battery. A single leak is OK but two is bad news and first comes one that is detected.

Personally, I think pulling the traction battery and inspecting for the leak and cleaning the electrolyte makes a lot of sense:

• verify it is terminal seal and nothing worse
• head off buss bar corrosion
• document the traction battery state during inspection

It is probably a two day affair:

1. 2-3 hours - pull battery and get on bench
2. 2-3 hours - using pool pH tests, find all KOH traces on traction battery to identify leaks and use dV test to identify likely leakage sources
3. 2-3 hours - remove buss bars and clean corrosion and problem modules to remove the invisible KOH (I'd wash individual modules in sink and towel dry)
4. 2-3 hours - reassemble and test dV to case to make sure leaks are gone
5. 1-2 hours - reinstall traction battery and test

But first we need to know if the OP is up to it with the will and resources. Maine is a little beyond my comfortable commuting range.

Bob Wilson

 

Please don't encourage folks, especially do-it-yourselfers, to wash charged battery modules in the sink.

 

Relax,

Washing in a sink is a perfect way to dilute and get rid of any latent KOH. One should of course wear safety googles. Rubber gloves are optional. Just do the modules individually and no problem. At 7.2-8.0 V, there is no real risk using tap water. It is a rinse, not a scrubbing wash.

The goal is to also inspect the module case to make sure there are no cracks. Electrolyte seepage around the terminals is fairly common with the older NHW11s. But if a cracked case module is found, not likely, then a replacement will be needed.

It would also be a good idea to wipe down the base that the modules are anchored. KOH is pretty corrosive to metals and organic material (aka., clothing.) It is a similar chemical to drain cleaners, lye, in reactivity.

Bob Wilson

 

You didn't mention that in your last post.

You didn't mention that in your last post, either.

You didn't mention that at all.

There are too many variables at play here. The post should be deleted.

 

The way we learn is to do and not be paralyzed by fear, unknown, and doubt (FUD). The only way to get experience is to do the hard work and do the experiment.

If the original poster decides to fix the car, there are options:

• turn it over to Toyota service center - $3,000+
• swap with Re-InVolt - $1,700 and labor
• find local mechanic/electrician - $500 (est.) to do work
• refurbish on their own - $0, tools and labor
• run it till it stops - $0 and an exciting life

The original poster has a menu of ideas and options. It really is their decision.

There is a small flag icon at the lower left. Push it and a menu will pop-up and you can file your complaint with the moderators. I'm sure they are waiting with baited breath for your input.

Better still, instead of being lazy, write up your own version. Of course this takes skill, ability, and getting off one's butt to do the hard work. Your choice. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

Patrick Wong has correctly pointed out that bwilson4web's posted procedure for disabling the Generation 1 Prius high voltage circuits is in error:

This is just part of the procedure that Toyota requires experienced technicians to carry out before working on the HV circuits. It is obligatory that anyone who chooses to post such procedures to an online forum of enthusiasts take the time to get it right.

It's not an option. It's a requirement. One should make sure that he or she understands proper HV safety procedures before attempting to explain such procedures to others.

For the sake of clarity, it would also be better to acknowledge the omission, as well as the subsequent correction, than to dance around the issue.

 

I'm afraid we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one:

Actually it is even better if we treat the OP as an intelligent person who can make up their own mind about what they want to do. Address your comments to the OP and we'll get along just fine because to quote from a famous movie,

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a d*mn!"
​

So turning back to the original poster, we have someone who has owned a prius for 3 months and got a code:

Question 1 - answered, 'no risk' but there is a corrosion risk and if a second one develops, it can discharge groups of modules. This can fail the pack. However, no one has ruled out checking to see if this was a transient or permanent condition. It it is permanent, priorities need to be adjusted on the repair action:

If you disconnect the 12 V battery, you'll clear the codes. If the problem reoccurs, you'll see the error light that happened before. We don't have to worry about the 'freeze frame' data since it must have been read by the Toyota technicians who first reported P3009. They will no doubt be please to read a fresh set of 'freeze frame' data.
​

Question 2 - answered, it won't heal itself and only get worse over time. You're gambling everyday that it will eventually suffer an unrecoverable failure and you'll have to replace the traction battery RIGHT THEN or just park the car. However, it is possible this was a transient that may or may not reoccur.

Question 3 - answered, ask around but the nearest Prius expert in the NorthEast would be good Prius Friend Hobbit. He may have some recommendations for independent shops up North (I think he was dealing with one in in New York that was offering Prius training at one time.) You might send him a PM and ask for recommendations in the Northeast. My contacts tend to be South of the Mason Dixon line. I know of one Canadian but he is on the Pacific Coast.

Bob Wilson

 

I disagree. Many of the technical gaffes that you have posted could have been avoided by simply taking the time to read and understand the repair manual.

It would be better if you fixed your own errors.

In this thread alone, two forum members have taken the time to point out problems in your posts on the subject of safety when working around high voltage circuits. It would take only a minute to own up to those problems and move on.

But if you'd rather characterize such efforts as "lazy", feel free.

 

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree:

Lazy is dead on point when looking for contributions to "Re: 2001 hybrid battery issues." The original poster has more information than before and ultimately it is their choice. I just hope they don't feel intimidated for fear of being 'jumped on.' It is a question of 'playing well with others.' But we're at a pause point and the original poster has options:

• sell/salvage the 3 month car ownership - they may decide it has problems beyond their interest of fixing. If they sell it, we may see the next buyer or it might go to the salvage yard, parts to repair another NHW11 Prius.
• investigate diagnose/repair - they took the first step by sharing and asking.
• pick two of three options offered: GOOD, FAST, CHEAP

Bob Wilson