More Driver Error?

Both incidents are in parking areas, which as we've discussed is where most pedal error occurs. Not saying that's what occurred, of course.

Couldn't find anything more about the Sheboygan one.. press conference should have already occurred.

 

Note Marseille's age, 76?? Why do these incidences occur more frequently in people above 60 ? The electronics recognizes the age of the driver ?

I prefer to wait to find out the details and FACTS of the crash of the man off of the second floor parking garage.

Malorn, I am like others in that I really do hope GM can get it right with an EV vehicle. I truly would prefer to purchase my next vehicle from a US manufacturer. But you continue to drive me away from GM with your blatant slamming of Toyota. Reminds me of a politician that needs to use negative compaigning because they cannot run a campaign on their own positive merits.

 

There may also be an issue with the ergonomics of the vehicles that makes them prone to choosing the wrong pedal by accident. This is something that merits further research and investigation, as opposed to brazenly brushing off all these cases as "all the drivers are idiots" because that gets us nowhere.

However, the seemingly blind repetition of "OMG, it'll be big trouble I tell you!" line is wearing extremely thin and does reflect badly on GM dealers.

 

a_gray_prius

I totally agree that we need to investigate to find the real reason that this occurs more fequently to older drivers. I was not attempting to say that "all drivers are idiots". My only point was to refute Malorn's repeated accusation that it is definitely an electronics problem.

Dwight

 

Malorn,

Where were you last week when GM made the top of the list of the most unsafe cars made? I agree that you are pushing more away from GM than hurting Toyota. And I agree with others that I hope GM is successful with the Volt (if and when they ever actually build it). I would love for my next car to be "made in America" by GM or Ford.

 

Does anyone know what vehicle went off the parking garage in Houston? I couldn't tell and the story didn't say.

And I'll wait to see what experts say about the Sheboygan accident. I'm not impressed with the article. She had her car's accelerator pedal, computer and carpet worked on as part of a recall? Someone appears confused. The driver may not be an idiot (although I don't think saying the driver put their foot on the wrong pedal makes the driver an idiot), but I'm not so sure about the reporter.

 

Malorn indicated it was a Sienna and while you can't tell for sure, the picture seemed to be consistent with that.

Police now say Sheboygan was driver error.

Police: Toyota crash in Sheboygan Falls the result of driver error | sheboyganpress.com | Sheboygan Press

 

So, the answer to the OP/Troll's question is: "Yes. Driver error."

 

For the first one, yeah.

The second one might be a bit more difficult due to the damage to the vehicle and passing of the driver. FWIW, he was 62. And the Sienna was actually not recalled for anything.

 

the reason witnesses said they saw her brake lights on is beacause
SHE DRIVES WITH BOTH FEET! one on the gas, one on the brake, 76 years old, confusion in the brain. probably slammed the gas to the floor, then hit the brake. too late.

 

I don't mean to single you out or anything. I'm just really disappointed by the prevailing "the drivers are all idiots" vibe around here which is kind of a way to avoid further investigation into both the electronic control systems and human interface design, either/both of which may be at fault.

 

Whaaaaa?

My advice is this: heavy drinking

You can trust me, I'm a consultant

That will be $14,937.49 please

 

It's surprising how little has come forward about this one so far... googling it gets you a half dozen links... all of which are the exact same news story copied on different sites. It'll be interesting to find out some of the details.

 

You got the advance payment I suspect.

 

That gets to the crux of the issue. You can't prove a negative. So there is no way for Toyota to ever say, conclusively, that it's not electronics. So for those of us who think this thing has been done to death, what else can be said? Are we really going to investigate every 2000-2010 Toyota crash like it's the Space Shuttle until the end of time?

OK, so that's a bit hyperbolic, but I'm serious. For anyone who thinks there might still be some unknown (or covered up) issue, at what point would you be convinced?

 

i just washed mine, it came clean, no prolemo.

 

This is a cheap shot, sort of gorilla hit and run low blow.

 

Can't find a deep issue if you're not looking particularly hard for it. Unfortunately, since this whole fiasco started it's been "all the drivers are idiots" from both Toyota and PriusChat as opposed to a more mature answer of "independent investigation of these incidents may point out a problem with the cars electronics or control devices, but as of now the issues appear to be with how drivers misjudged their own actions."

I find that arrogance terribly disturbing because it suggests a mindset so convinced of "the truth" that they are unwilling to truly make a concerted effort to search for deeply ingrained problems. Ironically, Akio Toyoda himself noted that he saw the company in "the stages of decline" as defined by Jim Collins:
Stage 1: Hubris born of success
Stage 2: Undisciplined pursuit of 'More'
Stage 3: Denial of risk and peril
Mighty America's 5 stages of rapid decline Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch
This sounds terribly familiar.

Yes, they may have hired an outside engineering firm (can't remember the name off the top of my head), but I have a really hard time believing that they can say with any real confidence that it's not due to the electronics in like 3-4 weeks. What about the accelerator short guy? "Everyone" says that it's not a realistic example and it'll never happen in real life, yet history is filled with examples of things that were never supposed to happen in real life.

I'm happy the government signed up NASA software people to look at the code - those are people who actually know how to write reliable software. I'm not asking for a negative to be proven, I'm very concerned that people are way too satisfied with conclusions made from what are basically quick glances at potential problems (and how this affects my own car - if there is an issue, I would like them to fix it) as opposed to doing truly responsible due diligence.