Hyundai Has Prius-Killer in the Works

As impressive as Hyundai's improvements in quality have been, the 'Blue Will' is ugly. It's a blue whale, complete with gaping baleen mouth. If there's no need for a huge radiator opening at the front of the car, then why make it look like it has one? Cars should be as sleek and smooth as possible, both for aesthetics and aerodynamics.

 

Everyone will have a Prius Killer soon, its going to be interesting to see if Toyota decides to rest on their laurels, or compete.

 

Soon? No. Though, it is enjoyable seeing how much importance the Volt enthusiasts are placing on the hitting that magic "50 MPG" mark. Hyundai does seem determined to deliver.

It's hard to believe it would have taken almost 15 years before genuine competition actually emerged.
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Yeah soon, not this year, but next year and beyond, there are lots of new things in the works, vehicles that Toyota will have serious competition with, and I say its a good thing, Toyota needs to compete again, they have gotten sloppy and lazy.

 

Agree, Honda is the only one that has really tried and ended up missing by almost 10 mpg.

 

Let's see:

• Honda Prius killer(s)
• GM's Aveo Prius killer (thanks CNW Marketing)
• GM's Hummer Prius killer (another CNW Marketing . . . )
• GM two-mode Prius killer
• Jetta TDI Prius killer
• <insert_model> diesel Prius killer
• Saturn Prius killer

Bob Wilson

 

I hope to see more competition in this segment because it will inevitably lead to better products in the long run.

 

the thing is, toyota licenses there tech from an american company and ford is the only one to show possibilities of competing because they bought it from toy. honda has not yet been able to come up with anything. it's going to be difficult for anyone to come up with competitive tech that doesn't infringe on patents.

 

Probably the same folks designed the unique front end for the Sonata Hybrid. Not my style. If it beats the Prius in real life gas mileage I might look at it again.

 

Neither of the two vehicles mentioned, the Santa Fe ( RAV4 ) or Tuscon ( Highlander ), are in the same size class as the Prius. Weight kills fuel economy. If they try to use these two vehicles as Prius-killers they'll end up like Honda and its weak IMA Insight II.

I'm certain that no vehcle maker right now is 'resting on it's laurels' the world is too small and too competitive. However technological advancements may be at their limits, for example NiMH technology. The next noticable advancement is going to be Li-Ion technology for PHVs and EVs.

NiMH technology is dependent on the basic ICE technology it's linked with. All the current systems simply act as a multiplier coefficient to the basic ICE systems. Essentially the addition of a hybrid electro-mechanical assist to an ICE system makes the new system about 30-40% more efficient. That's the case with 1.5L, 1.8L, 2.4L, 2.5L 4 cyl engines and 3.3L, 3.5L and 5.3L larger engines.

The NiMH technology causes the new hybrid system to use 30-40% less fuel on each of those engines. It's big benefits are that it's very very inexpensive and extremely durable over long periods.

I can see where some large companies like Hyundai might actually bypass NiMH technology simply because of the lead that Toyota and Ford have on the rest of the world and go to newer unproven technologies with more upside potential, though with more risks. This apparently is GM's strategy with it's Voltec technology.

 

Let's not count the chickens 'till the eggs hatch

Wasn't it the Honda Insight just a few months back that was supposed to be the Prius Killer? Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I'd give a little bit of credit to Toyotas 10 year lead before I fired up the broiler.

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Mostly, you are correct about incremental improvements. I don't see a whole lot of 'low hanging fruit' for a major improvement:

• ICE technology - full angle and duration valve management can eliminate the throttle plate but we're not likely to see more than a few percent and even then in specific power ranges. Efficient engines at a lower or wider operating range would also help.
• wheels and suspensions - low rolling resistance tires but it would take a remarkable change, perhaps a more dry sump, to squeeze any lower rolling drag (aka., dry differential gear.)
• aerodynamics - fully articulating air inlets and possibly air dam and/or lowering suspensions is about all that is left short of fully aerodynamic shape. As helpful as this is, it mostly helps above 30-40 mph.
• weight reduction - this is what LiON has over NiMH but using aluminum and composites can significantly reduce more weight at a cost in production.
• smart highway - this could be a game changer. The ability of vehicles to form safe, 'car trains' at high speed (automatic cruise control,) integrated traffic and vehicle control (the vehicles adjust speeds to next light to avoid stop) and smart yield-stop controls, could significantly reduce inertial losses of all vehicles.

Al Gore had a goal of 80 MPG vehicles and I think this is achievable. Our current ZVW30 is ahead of the pack at 50 MPG but even the Volt appears in the energy equations to still be in the 50 MPG range (best estimates.) Although I'm not fan of the original, two seat Insight, it did approach 65-70 MPG range mostly from light weight and improved aerodynamics at a sacrifice of utility.

We have both a 2003 Prius and 2010 Prius yet their mileage runs a lot closer than many would like to see. What isn't shown is the 2010 Prius does it faster and in colder weather with more interior space. But I still think the 80 MPG vehicle remains possible IF all optimizations are applied. The question is whether it will cost two or three times the $25k of today's Prius.

Bob Wilson

 

hugh? . . . I think you got it backwards.

Toyota Builds Thicket of Patents Around Hybrid To Block Competitors - WSJ.com

I believe Toyota cross-licenses with Ford so that neither wastes time having to worry about the other filing suit.

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2015 is the magic model year. There should be a convergence of Li battery capacity and impending CAFE standards. Super-capacitor technology may be mature enough to be part of the battery packs. IMHO a 2012 prius killer is aiming at the wrong target, I'll bet that the 2015 Gen IV Prius with Lithium battery pack will raise the bar.

Competition is good. These hybrids and plug-in hybrids take long design cycles. Ford and Hyundai are in the game now. I don't expect either will kill the prius, but they may make cars many of us would rather buy. I'd like better handling, better acceleration, and a more comfortable drivers seat, while only giving up 10mpg. Only competition will bring it. Hyundai looks like they are designing a long distance commuter vehicle optimizing it for long distance highway travel. Ford looks like they are going to make the focus a great handling small car. There is nothing wrong with cross licensing to push the cars forward. Not invented here doesn't really have a place. The ICE and HSD were not invented by toyota either.

 

What Prius killer?????

 

+1

(and I wish people wouldn't say Prius "killer." I mean, seriously. The Prius gets 50MPG average. To "kill" the Prius, another automaker would have to EXCEED the Prius MPG by a noticeable amount (say, 56MPG or more) AND have a more appealing car. A competitor? Yes. A "killer" ? Not so fast. Toyota has been developing HSD for over ten years now. I'm sure the Gen4 Prius that the Toyota R&D team is working on right now is going to step up the game even further)

(for the record: I got 38MPG in my Corolla on the way home today - freeway driving 48 miles each way, ranging from 55mph to 65mph, hypermiling when necessary. People are a lot more tolerant when gas prices are up)

 

Hyundai might be able to make a hybrid in the mpg range of the Prius, but I can say with a certain degree of certainty that they will never match Toyotas quality and reliability.

I have owned 2, and neither made it past 100k miles. For all the GM hate, I have seen many GM cars and trucks in the past 20 years (since Hyundai have become popular) to go over 200k miles, and more Toyotas than I can count. I have yet to find a friend with a Hyundai, Kia, or Daewoo with over 100k miles that they have not had to scrap due to constantly being in the shop.

 

Thanks for the info. I will keep my eyes open for real-world observations of this. My 1986 Chevy truck had 130K miles when I traded it in (it could have gone over 200K easily) for my 2004 Corolla (brand new). I have put 128K miles on my Corolla so far and it still drives (almost) like the day I bought it. When I recently had it at the dealer to replace a belt (it was due), the mechanic told me "these engines are solid. I have never seen one break down unless it was due to obvious neglect."

Have you noticed how you still see old Chevy Astro Vans on the roads? Same engine that I had in my truck. They just keep going and going.