Volt Question

GM has stated that the range extender is only for driving the vehicle, and that it would not make sense to charge the batteries with gasoline. So the only way to charge the vehicle back up so that it can run on electric power would be to plug it in.

Being that the car would still run sort of as a hybrid when in range-extended mode, it most likely would still store power from regenerative breaking and also attempt to keep the battery charged at least to a certain level, much like other hybrids do.

 

Nevertheless, GM has not revealed any actual information about how the Volt will operate, other than that the engine will not recharge the batteries. Thus we do not know the answer to your very worthwhile question.

Perhaps it's a moot point, though, since the car is priced to not sell, and will probably be canceled in a relatively short time.

 

As daniel has said ... GM has not provided sufficient information to suggest an accurate response.

Just a few comments: Regarding the ICE running while at a stop light. If the ICE is not intended to charge the battery .... there would be no point in it running. But do not count on regenerative braking to charge the battery (while stopped at a light). as mentioned above. That said, the ICE will need to start and stop in stop and go traffic. The Prius does this so smoothly that many are unaware of when it occurs. If the battery is depleted, might there be a delay (at the light) while the ICE starts? It seems to me like a very foolish way to design a vehicle. If I were in the market for an EV, I would seriously consider the Leaf.

I am very suspicious that the advertised 40 mile range will prove to be wishful thinking. Speed, hills, passenger load, stop and go traffic, A/C operation, cold weather and many more factors are surely going to impact the range. And from what we have seen, the battery pack is enormous .... hard to understand why only 40 miles. Daniel may well be right regarding GM's intentions.

Most of us taxpayers are hoping the Volt is a success so we can get our money back from GM.

 

We don't know the price. We can only guess. Daniel, what price do you think the Volt should be? At what price is it priced to fail?

 

The exact formula that the Volt will use is not publicly known. Some of the best techniques for running a serial hybrid might be confusing to drivers, such as running the engine more depending on the state of charge VS the actual speed of the car. Also the ICE could stay on at a light and turn off after the car has finished accelerating back up to speed. Keeping the ICE on and off longer might benefit efficiency but again be confusing to drivers if the engine noise is evidient.

 

GM has said the Volt technology is unsuitable for anything larger or smaller than the Volt. Thus, the Volt will never expand into a greater line, and succeed or fail, it will never be more than a microscopic part of GM's sales. Thus the failure or success of the Volt will have zero impact on GM's financial success.

We Prius drivers and EV enthusiasts see the Volt as a big deal. For GM over-all, the Volt is a pimple. GM will fail because of the criminal incompetence of its management, or it will "succeed" by being perpetually subsidized by the taxpayers. The Volt is irrelevant to the outcome.

Given what I expect it to be capable of, it is worth $10,000. Basically it is worth what a cheap, poorly-built economy car is worth.

If it does what they claim it will, it would be worth $15,000: a small family economy sedan.

At $40,000 it is priced to fail since too few people can afford it. GM wants to be able to say "We tried. We really did. Look at all the money we spent! But nobody wants an EV." And at $40,000 nobody will want it. Of course, the Leaf is going to sell like hotcakes, because it's a real EV.

 

If the Volt fails, I think they are going to blame the government (tax payers) for pulling the plug (discontinue $7,500 tax credit).

 

That would/will be interesting to see.
We will be able to directly compare what the end of the tax credit does to Volt sales vs Leaf sales (perhaps vs Model S sales as well).

 

Absurd. Nothing more to say about your post.

 

From watching the Volt test drives this is what I understand:

EV for 40 miles then after it becomes a serial hybrid. the gas engine only provide enough energy to move the car when needed. So for instance if you go down a mountain, the volt wil go back into ev mode (if enough regen is available).

 

The thing that really hurts the Volt isn't price or range, it's the fact that this is a family sedan that only seats 4! I know the rear seat on a lot of small sedans is a joke, but at least you can squeeze in 3 kids, or 3 short and friendly adults! I can just see a Nissan or Toyota ad now: a family of five are going out to some fun event, but as they get into the Volt mom turns to little Cindy "Oh, sorry sweetie, you can't come. The car only has 4 seats!". Family drives off, leaving Cindy alone and sad till the neighbor family beckons her over to their Leaf/PEV Prius "Come with us, Cindy! We have room for you!"

 

As much I'm not a GM fan (parents and I have been burned by their cars and I was personally burned by their stock), I tend to agree w/with hampdenwireles.

There's no way the Volt could sell for $10K, even after a huge tax credit. At $15K, that's still really pushing it. I think some people would be willing to pay somewhat above 2010 Prius II MSRP, after tax credit on a Volt for the technology and the ability to not consume any gas if within the EV range. Then there are the die hard GM and American car fan boys/anti-import folks...

After all, many hybrid owners are/were willing to pay a "hybrid premium".

However, if the Volt turns out to fall way short of expectations, is extremely unreliable (esp. battery problems), has a very short battery warranty coupled by a horrific replacement cost, has major safety issues, has many recalls in a short span, etc. and coupled by a bunch of bad press, then it will almost certainly fail.

 

We have owned a Honda Element for 7 years and it also only seats 4. Yes, there are families that will not buy it but that is not a key selling point. Most of the time cars are driven with one occupant.

That would be a good idea for an ad from Nissan. Chevy would then run an ad that has the Leaf running out of electrons at 100 miles but the Volt just having its range extender come on.

 

For an extra $12,000 or so, you too can have a vehicle with an engine and less than half the electric-only driving range.

That's what people will think. The lesson of the past decade is how important price is in the purchase decision. Nissan figured this out. GM will struggle with it for awhile still.
.

 

Clever ad (poor, sad Cindy...) but as Hampden points out few buyers need 5 seats. I have owned my Prius since 2004 and I would have to go out to the driveway to see if there are 3 seat belts in the back seat! 97% of the time it has 1 or 2 people, very occasionlly 2 couples.
A family with 3+ plus kids needs a bigger car/minivan. We need to get away from the idea that every vehicle should met every need. My pickup only seats 2, but it is the vehicle of choice when I need to haul a 1/2 ton of whatever. Never pick the Prius for that task.

TV ads will have a field day comparing the Volt and the Leaf. Hampden mentioned the Volt rolling right past the 100 mile mark while the Leaf rolls to a stop. I can't count the number of times I have forgotten to plug my cell phone in overnight and the problems that has caused the next day. Imagine Mom coming home with four sacks of groceries and two tired, crying kids....is she going to remember to go back out to the cold garage after dealing with everything else?

I am not in the market for a new car because my 2004 Prius only has 70k miles on it, but if I was I would get the Leaf so 90% of my driving could be petro free. BUT, if price right the Volt should be a success based on the number of people with "range anxiety" and the number that want an "American" car.

 

I hope the Volt does not have the same rear seat issue (hitting head) like the Insight II. I think the Insight II is loosing a lot of sales due to the rear seats. Honda even admitted that the Insight is too small for American market.

The Insight II can sit 5 but the Volt is 4 only.

 

There is a Volt?

 

Funny, I'm 1 of 8 kids and we got by with a 6 seat station wagon and no one stayed home alone, but the way we packed into that car wouldn't be legal today.

 

The problem with this approach is that some power must be available even when stopped. The Prius does this by keeping the battery partially charged, although the Prius must run the ICE for heat when needed.

If the Volt does not do at least some battery charging from the ICE, then it is possible for it to run out of power when standing still. To avoid this it will need to run the ICE even when stopped at a light.

If I were doing the control system design, I would allow the ICE to charge the battery to a minimum level; just enough to provide power for accessories during stop and go driving. Obviously it doesn't make sense for the ICE to fully charge the battery, as that would defeat the purpose of plugging in.

Tom