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Tire rotation - absolutely necessary?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Author, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    One reason I rotate my tires is to make sure that the wheels don't get "welded" to the hubs by prolonged corrosion. :) It's also more convenient to check wear patterns like others already said.
     
  2. Author

    Author New Member

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    Found the following comment on a BMW site and thought it might be useful:

    "On the BMW, tires will wear into a comfortable state for their given position. Think of always picking up a pencil the very same way and using it to erase with your right hand. If you always hold the pencil the exact same way, it will wear unevenly and the top will be at an angle. Now, though, when you erase, you get the maximum contact between the eraser and the paper. It is worn in away that it has adapted to how you pick it up and use it. If you now switch it to your left hand, for a long while, you'll be wearing off the corner of the pencil eraser as the angle changes from what was to what it is now. During that time, there's less contact patch and the center of contact is off center.

    I believe this is analagous to the reasons BMW does not recommend rotation. Until the tires adapt to their new position, there will be a slight loss of control.. the contact patch will be smaller and off center. Furthermore, you are increasing the overall wear of the tire.

    Soooooo... no tire rotation for me. Even if they offer it up for free. Wheel balance? Alignment? Absolutely! Once a year for sure. Rotation? No way."
     
  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Hmm...that's an interesting analogy, but I have to think there has to be quite a bit of difference between tread wear on tires and how a pencil eraser wears on a pencil. I mean just empiracly we are dealing with tires designed to contact the road, vs. an created EDGE of an eraser....there just IS a big difference.

    But it's an interesting idea. Even though I think rotation at 5000 miles is overkill, I can't totally abandon the idea that due to the drive and suspension of a vehicle, and the differences in load and wear between rear and front that there isn't value in rotation. Even if there was an interval of "adaption" time after tires are rotated, I'd think the risk minimal and the period for adaptation would have to be very, very short.

    But if you are driving a BMW on the Autobahn maybe your tires wear like erasers on pencils?
     
  4. stream

    stream Senior Member

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    To answer your question directly (since most have not :D), no--it is not absolutely necessary to rotate your tires.

    In fact, the last car that I rotated tires on before my Prius was over 20 years ago. Many manufacturers (including BMW and Porsche) specifically say to not rotate tires. The last 8 or 10 cars I've owned had staggered wheels (wider in rear than front), with unidirectional tires, so rotating wasn't possible.

    Depending on the alignment specs (camber, caster, toe in, etc.), and how aggressively the car is driven, some cars will see faster wear in the front or rear tires. Proponents of rotation say it will even out wear, without speaking to the cost/benefit. Think how much you're spending on rotations every 5K miles. You're going to replace the tires at about the same mileage anyway (unless you incorrectly insist on replacing all 4 tires at the same time), so why incur the additional expense?
     
  5. stream

    stream Senior Member

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    You're contradicting yourself.

    You advocate rotating tires:
    "Even though I think rotation at 5000 miles is overkill, I can't totally abandon the idea that due to the drive and suspension of a vehicle, and the differences in load and wear between rear and front that there isn't value in rotation."

    And in the next sentence say this:
    "Even if there was an interval of "adaption" time after tires are rotated, I'd think the risk minimal and the period for adaptation would have to be very, very short."

    You can't have it both ways. ;)

    If your theory were correct, that the period for adaptation is "very, very short" (which it isn't, unless you rotate at very, very short intervals--which would be very, very expensive, and wasteful), then how much difference in wear could there be, to warrant rotation?

    The reality is the difference in wear patterns between axles is significant enough that many manufacturers of high performance cars specifically advise against tire rotation.
     
  6. Author

    Author New Member

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    It always seems to come back to the money, doesn't it.

    I was into the dealer's a few days ago and had a chance to watch a tire rotation. While one tech changed the oil in a Camry, another rotated the wheels. Man, the wheel guy was fast...wheels off and on in 5 minutes by my watch. At $25/rotation, I make that $300/hr - $40/hr more than my lawyer charges. Is this practice possibly the most profitable part of this operation?
     
  7. stream

    stream Senior Member

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    Bingo! Wonder why 5K mile tire rotations are recommended? ;)
     
  8. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Tesla puts directional tires on the Roadster & the front & back wheels are different sizes so the tires can't be rotated. My conclusion is that tire rotation isn't very important or useful. Perhaps it was valuable when tires needed innertubes.
     
  9. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    my dealer does free rotations and recommends every 5,000 miles (les schwabs)

    maybe not, but the tires u did get have a 50,000 mile rating


    actually most professionals say you can keep better control of the car in an emergency stop when your rear tires have better tread. car momentum means less weight on the back tires meaning less friction, meaning less stopping force. this can cause the rear end to come forwards. in most cases; undesirable result

    **as for me**
    my dearly departed brother was a tire store manager and recommended tire rotations every 5,000 miles simply because if you didnt, you were limited to the life of the front tires which will wear out faster and in some driving conditions, that could be much faster.

    so that is what i do. does it make a difference?? i dont know. when i change the OEM tires that are currently on my SPM, i will let u know if they made 50,000 miles or not
     
  10. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    We are talking about the Prius, which has non-directional OEM tires (at least, the 15" are).

    And most of us are concerned with getting the most miles out of all 4 tires.

    To go back to the "eraser" analogy, if you only use one side, eventually you will start scraping the metal head across the paper even though you still have some eraser left. With tires, this means your edges will be gone if you leave tires on the front instead of rotating them. The rear tires will last a little longer, but the fronts will die a lot sooner.

    Now for the obvious part:
    If you rotate too often, you're spending more for rotations than you would if you simply bought tires sooner.

    5k miles sounds a little light - and probably was chosen (arbitrarily) to match the oil change interval. Now that the oil interval is 10k, that sounds like the logical choice. You'll do 3 rotations over the lifespan of a 40k tire, net cost $75 PLUS the benefit of consistent steering/braking response from all 4 tires.

    Don't rotate at all and you save $75 but you get maybe 90% as much tread life overall - and on a $500 set of tires, that's $50. So your net savings is only $25 - and you don't have consistent steering/braking response.

    (and I think BWM and Porche assume that if you can afford their cars, you can afford buying new tires more often.)
     
  11. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

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    maybe not, but the tires u did get have a 50,000 mile rating

    A rating has zero to do with a warranty. In fact, it means nothing. No one promises you will get 50,000 miles on your tires. You may wear them out rotating them!
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    hmm. i rotate front to back only (ya ok, old ancient radial tire superstition or whatever you want to call it, but i never go side to side) and although i could have it done free every 5,000 miles i do not. i do it myself. i use two floor jacks and the process can take as little as 14 mins or more likely around 25 mins. that does include readjusting the tire pressures.

    so, its not about expense at all. now as i get older, i may be reluctant to continue doing that. but at the same time, i prefer to do it when i have a bit of time instead of taking it somewhere where the time to complete it is unknown
     
  13. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Yes, I can have it both ways because they are totally different things. I believe for most average cars and average drivers there is value in tire rotation, I personally believe the interval for those rotations can be longer than the usually recommended 5000 mile. I do mine once a year but monitor my tread wear carefully.

    The totally separate comment is in regards to the proposed "adaptation period" in context of the presented commentary from Author about the tires adapting to postions AFTER being rotated. I can't believe that for most people that adaptation period would be very long, or the adaptation be that severe.

    Maybe for high performance sports cars, the recommendation not to rotate would have validity. But since most people aren't talking about consistent high performance useage on a track, my opinion is monitor tread wear, rotate (imo about 1 time a year).

    It may very well be true that some manufacturers of high performance cars recommend not rotating, but I think for most average vehicles and average drivers there IS value in an occasional rotation of the tires.

    You can disagree, like I've already said everyone has an opinion, but despite the evident recommendation NOT to rotate by some High Performance Manufacturers, overall Tire rotation IS recommended by the majority of Tire Installers, Tire Manufacturers and most auto makers for most cars.
     
  14. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Correct, but the same applies to Nitrogen. If it is for free, put it in, or else, put only 79%. :cool:
     
  15. Philosophe

    Philosophe 2010 Prius owner

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    And I've even heard many tire shops will provide 79% nitrogen for free! :eek:
     
  16. hsiaolc

    hsiaolc New Member

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    I don't really agree in tire rotation. When the front wears out faster just replace the front two first.
     
  17. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

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    OMG! Really?


    I know.
     
  18. Econ

    Econ Member

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    Front to Back on the V's with 17". Do not cross them.
    Easy and quick. I do that every 5K.
     
  19. Eoin

    Eoin Active Member

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    "And I've even heard many tire shops will provide 79% nitrogen for free!"

    I use Helium in my tires. It makes the car much lighter.
     
  20. Arnold

    Arnold +AT+SR

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    I have been driving cars for 44 years now (the last 2 of 12 cars were Priuses, the others european brands) and I have never rotated tires, neither was it ever recommended to me, here in Europe. I usually just replace(d) the 2 front tires earlier as needed. Must be some old american habit, I presume.