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WHY NO 12V Battery Charging Instructions in Owners manual ?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by New_Yorker, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    I have a Dead Prius in the garage :eek:! The 12V Battery is dead. I left the Prius for 3 days without using it, otherwise simply shut it and locked it as always.

    Now though the Owners Manual tells you how to use Jumper Cables from another car to "Jump Start" the car, that instruction has No Value or help for me. Since the car is a barn that prevents me from getting another vehicle anywhere near it, the "Jumper Cable" option is not a possibility.

    I have a battery charger, 2 AMP and 10 Amp auto settings, and a manual setting. I'd love to use it to charge the 12 volt battery so I can get the new Prius running , and take it to the dealer (20 minute ride) so they can tell me why the battery went south on me.

    The 5 pounds of detailed Owners Manuals that came with the car say this on the subject of me charging the battery . . NOTHING !

    So I am toying with the idea of using the jump start connections and charging the 12V battery over a few hours to see if the 2 AMP deep cycle charge setting can resurrect the battery. Anyone ever try to do this ? Any idea why Toyota does NOT even mention the subject in the various Owners books ?
     
  2. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    The 12V in the Prius is not your normal 12V. I don't use battery chargers but I've seen others mention that you have to be careful using them on the 12V. Someone will chime in..

    As for why it's not in the manual, most manuals do not include specifics on maintenance/repair tasks. It doesn't tell you how to change the oil either.

    How did you get the car where it is now? You have the jump points in the front and direct access to the battery in the back, so I do not know how it's not possible to get another vehicle near it for jumping. (Does the manual mention the battery access in the back? I don't think it does for my 09... the salesman pointed it out)
     
  3. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    OK . . . .You good people should all write this into your owners manual in case you end up some time where I am. Just called my Toyota Dealer's Service Department. They said that if I apply a low amp charge to the eaxct same terminals used to Jump Start the 2010 Prius it will RE-CHARGE THE 12 Volt Battery just like every other car I've ever owned, and then, providing the 12 Volt battery is still viable, the car should start.

    When I asked why it should be discharged after leaving it for 3 days, they suggested the door was left ajar, so a dome light stayed on after I locked the car. I found no such door ajar, but the battery is so dead I could not tell even if a light was on. We'll see once the battery charges up, if I can learn anything more.

    I am still curious why the genius's at Toyota failed to write this battery charging instruction in the Owners manual under" 'Battery', 12 Volt, In Need of Re-Charging !"

    Dead or low batteries has always been a common affliction of cars and trucks, evidently having a hybrid changes that NOT AT ALL, so why Toyota did not inform we who own these cars, of this vital instruction is worth asking.
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Toyota put jump points under the hood, how much more do you need? Perhaps Mr. Toyoda can come out and connect the cables for you.

    You really don't need to wait a few minutes for the battery to recharge. All you need to do is get 12V on the bus. Once the Prius boots to Ready the 12V bus is powered by the DC to DC converter.

    For future reference, you can also use long jumper cables with a Prius. The current demands for starting are low, so it isn't necessary to have short large cables.

    The exception is if your 12V battery is shorted, in which case jumping will not work. You can, however, disconnect a bad 12V battery and boot with an external 12V source. Once it is booted, you are in good shape until you power down.

    Tom
     
  5. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    The Prius is in a barn surrounded on all sides with many other things like a tool bench, a tractor that can't be moved till the car is out, etc. The back of the car is the closest another car can get to the terminals in the front of the Prius, and my jumper cables are only about 10 feet long. When the battery is dead you can unlock the door manually with the 'key', but without electricity you cannot open the trunk, to directly access the 12 V battery. I drove the Prius into the gargae 3 days ago when their was no indication of any problem, I locked the car as I have done everytime I put it away.

    Jump Starting a dead battery IS in the owners manual, so Toyota does recognize a dead battery is a common enough occurance to tell us that 'Fix'. Hardly the same as changing the oil in the engine. The proper use of a battery charger is the 'Other' common 'Fix' for a Dead Battery, so why would it not be mentioned at all by Toyota ?

    WHO KNOWS ?
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You can open the hatch without power, but it's not really fun. There is a manual release in the back, under the hatch floor. If you really need to get in there without power, do this:

    1) Use your mechanical key to unlock the driver's door.

    2) Reach back and unlock a rear door.

    3) Open the rear door and fold down the seats.

    4) Pull the hatch floor forward.

    5) Crawl in back and open the little access panel under the hatch.

    6) Pull the manual release.

    Tom
     
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  7. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    In the pdf I have of the 2010 Prius Owner's Manual, Section 4.3 (pages 436-440) is about charging the 12 volt battery. I haven't read it to see if it gives adequate instructions.

    You can download pdfs of the Owner's Manual and the Navigation Manual here:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...2010-prius-owners-manual-available-pdf-9.html
     
  8. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    Suggestions appreciated.:D
     
  9. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    that's a site peddling it membership, I already have the owners manual, and the charging of the 12 v battery is not in it.
     
  10. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    Trunk full of cartons, heavy ones. I'm too substantial to go crawling into the trunk. Charging the battery much simpler.

    Thanks anyway.
     
  11. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    What are you talking about? It's a link to a PriusChat thread I started to provide PriusChat readers with access to PDFs of the 2010 Prius Owner's Manual and Navigation Manual.

    Here's the relevant part:

    "Below are download links to MegaUpload.com for both the 2010 Prius Owner's Manual on PDF and the 2010 Prius Navigation Manual on PDF (English Language - US & Canada Editions):

    (a) Owner's Manual pdf: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service


    (b) Navigation Manual pdf: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

    Note that you do not have to become a member of MegaUpload.com to download the files. All you have to do is:

    -- click on the above link for the file you want,

    -- enter the scrambled letters and numbers code and click on the "download file" button,

    -- wait 25 seconds (there's a countdown box) and click the "regular download" button when it appears."
     
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  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    In which case you could have already read the section on battery charging. It's right where Boo says. I just looked.

    Tom
     
  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Steering wheel has an electric motor. Try turning the steering wheel to generate electricity to charge the 12v battery. I suggested this feature and you can test if they actually implemented it in Gen3. I doubt it. ;)

    In a serious note, can you get another jumper cable to extend it?
     
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  14. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    Now, although the Toyota 2010 Prius Owners Manual Index does NOT mention Re-Charging the 12 Volt Battery, it is explained on pages 436 through 440, I discovered. It is not relevant if you can't get to the battery through the trunk, so it fails to mention the remedy I am now employing after being given the OK BY MY Toyota Dealers service department, but everyone should add those pages to the index of their manual, and add Re-Charging to the index as well. It mentions that 4.2 amps is the maximum safe recharging level. I am using just 2 amps.
     
  15. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    I did all that twice, it just kept playing music on a new window, and went back to the original download screen when I " X 'd" the music and New Member junk. I found the information that you are sending me to in the manula, but it doesn't mention the remedy either, justv how to charge the battery if you can disconnect the ground wire from it. Since I can't get into the trunk, it wouldn't help anyway, but I added the pages to the Owners Manula index where Toyota failed to enter them and I wrote in the 'Fix' given me by the dealer, which everyone else should add in case they end up with a dead battery in the garage.

    Thank anyway.
     
  16. Author

    Author New Member

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    A dead battery...what a pain in a Prius! I sympathize with New Yorker.

    I'm wondering why a 12v trickle charge solar panel (the kind Canadian Tire and I assume J C Penney sell...about 4x15in) wouldn't be a good idea lying on the dash or mounted in the rear window. I had one mounted permanently in the rear window of my nine year old TDI - never had a dead battery in 9 years, even in the coldest weather. I also have one mounted in our sunroom for keeping my hibernating Miata's battery alive through the winter. Works like a charm even in long periods of overcast weather.

    I do know that the accessory 12v sockets in the 2010 Prius are not active with power off. Would it be possible to run the wires directly to the 12v battery?

    Seems like a simple fix for what appears to be an inevitable(?) dead Prius battery.
     
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  17. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    Weird. I just re-tested the link myself and it worked perfectly with the instructions I had posted (the only change is that it now takes 45 seconds instead of 25 seconds for the "Regular Download" button to appear).

    Anyways, I do recommend trying to download the owner's manual and navigation manual pdfs again. They're very handy to have. You can do word and phrase searches of the pdfs, and usually find what you're looking for a lot faster than searching the hard copy manuals.
     
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  18. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    The solar trickle charger sounds like an excellent idea, and you wouldn't need a solar panel the size of the one that powers the elect fan in the IV model. FOLLOWING THE DEALERS SERVICE DEPARTMENTS INSTRUCTIONS, Which Are NOT in your 2010 OWNERS MANUAL, I managed to get the Prius started and drive it using only a 2 AMP trickle charge for about 3 hours. I connected it using the connectors under the hood indicated in the Jump Start procedure. Remember that the battery was so dead it would NOT unlock the doors or even turn on a light. If a 2 amp charge could repower the battery that quickly just imagine what a small trickle charge from a solar panel could do if the engine were shut off and the car parked in the sunlight.

    So my ordeal is over, and the simple instructions I needed are now written in the Owners Manual and the index amended to include Battery, 12 Volt Recharging Instructions.

    I thank everyone for their constructive comments.:)
     
  19. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

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    You've got the Model V which has the NAV screen so you can enter OBD with it and see both what the resting voltage and the load voltage is for the 12 volt battery. I have the Model II and there is no way to enter OBD with it. I plan to get a Scangauge so I can periodically check the health of the 12 volt battery, which is apparently the Achilles heel of the system.
     
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  20. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    Thanks ! Didn't Know That. I will give that a try once I feel the 12 volt battery has recovered sufficiently to allow me to 'fiddle' with things electronic. The clock needs to be reset as well. That battery was so dead it couldn't even power the clock.

    How DEAD was that Battery you ask . . . .? ? ?

    That Battery was as Dead as the slogan "DRILL BABY, DRILL" now that the Gulf of Mexico is one big oil slick.:rockon:

    Everybody have a great day, and thanks to all !