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Peter, Paul, and circumcision.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    When you quote this phrase, remember that opium was considered a wonder drug at the time, so this quotation is actually an endorsement of religion.

    Tom
     
  2. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    Actually, it's not.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people]Opium of the people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    He refers to religion as the "illusory happiness" of the people as well. It IS a "wonder drug" in that its effects are so useful - but the effects are known to be drug-induced and not based on reality. i.e.: a temporary salve for a permanent condition.
     
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    I see that as an endorsement. He was critical of religion, but not without sympathy for the oppressed masses. Marx suggested that the oppressed needed and deserved something to soften their worldly suffering, and religion provided this. His larger goal was to remove oppression and suffering, at which point religion would no longer be required as the opium of the people.

    Taking this quote out of context suggests an attack on religion. When read in full, it suggests that religion is a symptom, and not the problem.

    Tom
     
  4. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I agree with qbee. Note also, that he refers to religion as "the heart of a heartless world." However, I disagree with Marx. (Maybe he was on opium when he wrote that. ;)
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I find it interesting that people who believe in something for which there is zero supporting evidence, and considerable evidence against, and which is supported by nothing but some two- to three-thousand year old writings tacked together in a calculated effort to support pre-conceived ideas; I find it interesting I say, that people who believe these unsupported, illogical, and inconsistent ideas, would refer to people who reject those ideas as "ignorant." :)

    And I find it interesting further, that someone who recognizes that the Bible is a flawed document, would nevertheless accept the supernatural claims of that document. And then refer to people who reject that document as "ignorant."
     
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  6. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    I am not Karl Marx. I think the disease is the human condition: being self-aware in a natural world which is in fact "heartless". Religion is a balm for the many who desperately want an explanation - ANY explanation - so that it all "makes sense". (And pat answers always have much broader appeal than detailed, nuanced explanations - ask someone whether god exists or OJ Simpson was guilty, and 90% of the time you'll get a yes or no answer.)

    It is entirely normal for us to want to do this - humans are better at pattern recognition than computers because we take anything new and try to match it with something we already know. It makes it easier to understand, and takes less space in our brains. But often we go too far and see horses and bunnies where there are simply water molecules gathered around dust particles in the air. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

    The real problem is that, when faced with something new/unknown, the religious reaction is either to try to force it to conform to what they already "know", or to reject it out of hand. The problem with thinking you have all the right answers, is that it's basically impossible to admit any of them might be wrong - and there's absolutely no room for anything new.
     
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  7. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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    I don't find it interesting - I find it hypocritical. (seems to go hand-in-hand with self-righteousness)