1st oil change at 5k or 10k?

Well i guess it's just where we live. Oil change guys in the US make very little money, usually are poorly trianed. Most oil change guys never could afford to buy a new car. And they truly make minimum wage to around $10 a hour max. Where a good mechs make 2-5 times more than the guy changing the oil.

And last of all don't tell people or me That I'm lieing about the country i live in, things are just different from where you are. I have not made things up or lied. There are just alot of poor low paid/ dont care about their jobs oil change guys. There are also a few good ones that really care about their jobs and the customes car.

I have recieved two free oil changes from the Toyota dealers because of such poor service when i did pay for it. I have not been happy with any dealers so far as far as oil changes go. I may start doing it myself as i have done the last ten years. I just thought i was willing to pay the $80 for an oil change to be able to hold the dealers resonasble for anything that goes wrong while my car is under warranty.

 

Hmmmm, So what a genius like you advocates is never changing the oil if you can't do it yourself. Let us hope you don't view going to the Dentist in the same way.

 

No I say follow Toyota!!!! they say 10k miles or one year But if you go in an extra 30 oil changes for the life of the car you will risk having more screw ups.

They say to have you home heating system checked every year? Do you pay them to come out every six months to be safe???

Do you get a dental cleaning every 6 months like they recomend? Or do you get a dental every 3 months to be extra safe???? Do you get xrays every year? or do it every 3 months to be extra safe??

I think what i'm saying is with anything doing it twice as often as needed is a waste of your money, the worlds fuel/oil. It also produces greenhouse gasses, and is not needed.




I"M SAYING EVERYONE SOULD FOLLOW TOYOTAS OIL CHANGES, 1 year or 10,000 miles. they should not listen to people personal thoughts on here. Unlike you i'm saying listen to Toyota not me. I think they should ignore you and listen to the people who built their car!! I belive Toyota knows more than you ever will about oil changes.

 

You are the one who is either full of s***, or perhaps things are FAR different in the EU market

Here in North America, you are LUCKY if the "tech" changing the oil in your car wasn't scrubbing urinals or flipping hamburgers the week before

There are many, many horror stories of incompetent dealerships here in North America. God help you if you own something really expensive to repair, like a turbodiesel Dodge Ram Cummins, Ford PowerStroke, or Chevy Silvorado pickup

Those can quickly become horror stories in their own right. We don't brag about being "shadetree mechanics" here just for bragging rights - it's usually to ensure some dealership doesn't royally f*** up our car

You got off lucky. Far worse could have happened. Such as conveniently forgetting to tighten the oil filter, or the drain plug

"Oops!"

That is a standard entry-level "lube bay" wage at dealerships in North America. What would that work out to, say 3-4 pounds per hour?

This is NOT "made up" bulls***. You must have a far different experience in the EU

You must be making that up!

Typically, you would have to be a professional engineer, doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc to make that sort of salary in North America. Our "super mechs" just MIGHT make $45,000 a year here!

Seriously, that is what a car mechanic makes in the UK?

Unreal!

Sorry, I have to say YOU are the one who is making things up. If car servicing really is that good in the UK and the rest of the EU, I had better move there.

Here, you are lucky they don't put dings in the door, scratch the paint, conveniently "forget" to change the oil, etc. There are many Investigative Journalist news articles on these horror stories

Sorry, I don't believe it. A "top" mechanic working in the Arctic regions doing oil exploration, might make $120,000 a year. But in any large city, perhaps $45,000-$55,000 a year, tops

If a mechanic could earn $30/hour and more, he would be tickled pink.

So you folks must live in some sort of fantasy world, assuming what you stated is even true

The local shop rate here is $75 per hour. Do you seriously believe the mechanic sees even a fraction of that??

That also applies to Canada too. You are 100% correct

 

If they are screwing up anyway so why are you listening to Toyota?

They don't just do oil change in the dealers. They are there to fix things. All the mechs in my bros workshop drives really shitty car. They all drive crap cars do you know why? Because firstly they have so much cars coming their way usually they just keep what come at them and they get them for free sometimes. Second they make so much money they don't want to be centre of attraction. My brother makes heck a lot of money but when it comes down to cars I drive better car than he does but he has two houses and I only have one. I asked him a few times why not get himself a better car and he told me that he is around cars fixing them at work all the time he just don't really don't see the need to get a better car to them they all the same and just want to get to point A to point B cheap. The only car he has bought this time is the Prius Gen 2 for dirt cheap and thats only because I bought the Gen3 new and he saw the amount of fule savings I was doing so he went to get a gen 2. Other than that all the cars from the past it was given to him from his private clients. Anyway what do you know? You just hypothesing everything because you actually don't know how much they make. I don't know how much they make in the US but I doubt they are there just to put in oils for you.

They come around every year for a check up and it is part of the insurance we pay. But if they could come out every six months I will be happy. I don't see why not.

If it is really cheap yeah I would get my teeth cleaned every 3 months. Why not? But it is not a hobby and I am not in love with my teeth as I should (because we take it for granted). But I do love my car and want it to be in tip top condition so I will change it earlier.

I hope you are not a lawer.

Well if you don't trust their mechs then why should you trust what toyota tells you?

Yeah unilike you. Luckly we are unlike you. We don't follow peopple who we don't trust. You obviously don't trust their mechs but you trust what they tell you. Funny. And yeah don't ever listen to yourselv because you are confused and don't know what you are talking about.

 

OK. LOL Toyota does not own the dearlerships here. So their pretty much independent of toyota. The reason i say for people to ignore you and me and just trust toyota on the whole oil change thing is. You and I provide no warranty on what we say, but if people follow toyota oil change 1year/10k Toyota will warranty the car!!! I don't trust most oil change tecs, In the us they are not the same as the guys that fix your car, those guys do get good training and are paid well.

Again in the us they have a lube guy, that does oil changes and tire rotations, it's not the same guy that will do engine repair, or brake repair or electrical repair, they are different people.


if there are any lube guys reading this, i would like to thank the good ones that try at their jobs, we need more people like you. Also we need to get your wages raised so you can be rewarded for your hard work.

Maybe one day the lube guys can make more than layers, and doctors like they do in the UK. LOL

 

If going to the dentist every 3 months improved the time I will have teeth in my head, I would. They accumulate contaminants differently, and we Brush 3 times a day to remove them. So we DO use the same methodology for saving the teeth in our head. This would only be equivalent to oil changes IF you installed a better than stock filtration on the engine and have the oil analyzed for its contents. Since we do not do that replacing the oil, to remove the wear particles, allows the engine to WEAR LESS ! This is NOT Rocket Science, so in this matter of Oil Change frequency I almost certainly DO know as much as Toyota does. Toyota had major problems with Engine Sludge build up a few years back, had they advocated more Frequent Oil cahnges, and 100% synthetic Oil they could have avoided that nighmare. Proof that Toyota Doesn't Always 'get-It-Right' on the first go around.

I disagree with your assumption that having people change the engine oil more frequently increases the possibility they will do damage. I can't speak for your particualr choices in car reapir shops, but I make mine dependent upon past satisfactory service being done competently, and without problems. I also furthur contend that leaving contaminated engine oil in an engine to the Maximum and now extended extreme mileage of 10,000 miles does more damage. My policy of changing the oil in a new engine at least 3 times during the Critical first 5000 miles, when metal wear particles appear in massive amounts compared to later on in the life of the engine, will better insure Minimum Engine Wear on its bearing surfaces. Then one also removes moisture and dirt from the longer interval, making those oil contaminants less damaging to a new engine as well. Most of this common sense. After owning and maintaining a dozen new cars in my life, most exceeeding 1/4 million miles, I'll avoid your new 'Not-Really-Better' ideas on the subject.

 

Ok i give up. Your right. I just looked at the dealer on the way home, there are dozens of Prii sitting in the lot, I'm willing to bet the engines are worn out and they need to rebuild them. To bad those people followed the owners manual and destroyed their cars.

To be honest though, I have read of dozens and dozens HV batteries going bad, and lots of transaxels going bad. I haven't seen and threads on prius chat about worn out engines or seen elsewhere.

 

When engines wear from having had infrequent oil changes they usually exhibit blue smoke coming from the tailpipe. In high compression engines this is more common. Burning Oil is not the problem it was owing to better mettalurgy and synthetic oil technology, which virtually eliminates engine sludge for those who use only 100% synthetic oils. Still removing contaminated oil before its traveled the equivalent of 3 + trips Coast to Coast in the continental US makes sense, especially if one tends to keep cars for a long time before replacing them.

 

As part of buying a 2010 3G I recieved the 2 year maintenance plan in the mail today. It calls for oil changes every 5k miles. I don't care if the new plan is 10k, I plan on holding Toyota to the 5k deal. We shall see!

 

Mine also finally arrived...however, the coupons clearly state what services are eligible and the 5K certificate only states tire rotation and multi-point inspection.

 

I highly doubt the dealership would do oil changes every 5,000 miles with their pricey synthetic 0W-20. I would believe it if they used whatever cheap generic crap - a 5W-20 or maybe a 10W-30 considering your climate - they have sitting in their tote bin out back

 

Man, you sure go out of your way to justify changing your oil too often. No real proof was provided for review, just fearful toe tapping thoughts. According to your logic, changing the engine oil 3 time before 5,000mi is bare minimum or slacking, right? I have yet to see a smoking Prius on the road to back up your oil change antics.

 

You don't have to see a dead man to know that smoking is bad for you. By the time you got it, it is too late.

Nor do you have proof that chaning at 10,000 is best for the engine of the car. Engine wear happens all the time and one doesn't need to have proof because it is common sense. I am sure there are proof out there on the WWW but I am just not bothered to find it for you guys because it is pointless.

If you want sludge in your car then be our guest. As why some of us change oil before the specified not because it is just for warranty but we love our car and wish our baby stays smooth.

I am really not understaind these people with their problems. If you don't want to change early then don't. NO one is forcing you to.

 

Herewith is an interesting post on BITOG, regarding OCI and engine wear.....

"Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it. :

Taken from this web site: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

 

Are you saying that the synthetic oil is forming sludge in the engine if it is not changed out by 5000mi? Or 2000mi? Or 1000mi? Should Toyota just do away with the oil filter all together, because you experts with blind faith in the extra virgin oil god seem to ignore its presents. Yes, I am sill waiting on more than toe tapping thoughts to back up your claims. Please feel free to change your oil as if it was your shorts, I won't stop you, honest.

 

Read that before. It needs frequent oil filter change. I am adopting that method at the moment.

 

In light of all these varying opinions and study findings, it seems like 5K is a good balance for a first oil change. I pamper my car, so the only premature wear factor would come from stop and start driving (there's been enough of that in city type and suburban situations), I suspect.

 

There was a massive class action lawsuit in the United States over certain Toyota engines having sludge - though technically the problem was "gellation"

There are many factors involved in why some of their motors experienced gellation and others didn't. Mechanical design is one, but the same motors used in Australia and the EU did NOT, repeat did NOT, have gellation issues

The other issue was a "normal" oil change interval of 12 months or 7,500 miles. That is fine if you run a European oil with ACEA A5, or ACEA A3, B3/B4 specs, NOT if you run a cheap generic crap API oil sold in North America

The major contributing issue was stop and go driving, as the condensation didn't have a chance to vaporize off. Again, not a problem with ACEA oils as they are specifically formulated to protect against such problems

Unlike even current API SM specs, the ACEA specs have long called for protection from gellation, cold black sludge, ring land deposit fill, and crown land deposit fill. This is in addition to "normal" oil change intervals of 12 months or 10,000 miles, with some car makers offering up to 24 month or 30,000 miles if you use their approved oils

A regular car maker in North America can't tell you what brand of oil to use. Under the cross eyed guidance of the API, all motor oils are exactly the same. No matter the cheapest generic 5W-30 or the most expensive synthetic, all have the same rating: SM.

The ACEA clearly differentiates oil quality with their grading system. Furthermore, car makers in the EU can demand you use an oil on their "approval" list.

I hope you're not suggesting that cars with 24 month or 30,000 mile oil change intervals are sludged up by their first oil change.

If I was forced to run cheap generic crap 5W-30, I would change it at LEAST every 6 months or 5,000 miles. Indeed, based on used oil analysis from my FJ Cruiser, a 3 month or 3,000 mile would be far more appropriate

With a good ACEA A3, B3/B4 oil in my FJ, such as the made in Germany Castrol Syntec 0W-30, even 7,600 miles on the same filter returned far BETTER results than the cheap crap dealership mystery oil run only 2,800 miles

That applies to cheap crap North American oils, as they are designed to be volatile and shear down, on PURPOSE. This is how they claim to be "fuel conserving," though nobody will notice any real world difference

Frequent oil changes with cheap crap API rated oil means you are always putting in highly volatile oil. Just 10 years ago, an API oil was allowed to be 30% volatile, and allowed to thicken 500 PERCENT in use, and earn a "pass"

What is the most immediate effect of always introducing that highly volatile oil into your motor? It burns off, and ends up as deposits in the ring lands of the pistons, as deposits in the crown land area of the pistons, and as varnish and sludge in other parts of the motor

Once you have sufficient ring land deposits, the rings stick. This not only causes damage to the cross hatch of the cylinders - ironically increasing oil consumption - but also allows blowby into the crankcase. Hence more deposits forming

So its a tradeoff between "pampering" your motor by filling it with cheap crap generic API oils, and performing frequent oil changes, or running a good synthetic and changing the oil once a year.

Can anybody cite longitudinal studies on engine life versus oil change frequency? Or is it anecdotal? For example, my folks ordered and bought in Canada, a 1984 Ford F-150 pickup to drive between their summer home in Ontario, and their winter home in St George Utah

My dad only ran a heavy duty 15W-40 oil in the motor. He'd change the oil once a year, the filter every 6 months. Over 15 years, they put on 280,000 miles, and the motor is still in good shape

Up here, what kills a motor early is the bitter cold winter temps we have. It really is expected to have -40 temps in January. A conventional 5W-30 doesn't even flow at those temps, and every time we have a sudden cold snap, there are a rash of blown front seals

Combine -40 with city driving, the meager additive package in cheap generic crap oils can't handle it. Why? Because they don't HAVE to , that's why! There is no specific requirement to prevent cold black sludge, the oil companies successfully lobbied to drop that requirement

Nonsense. Again, this European member isn't aware that here in North America, with the API, there is no distinction whatsoever among oil quality

No matter the best synthetic, or the cheapest generic bulk crap oil, all meet the same API SM standard. Hence, all are equally "good" in the eyes of the API

There is no distinction whatsoever made among oil change intervals, or severity of service, when it comes to the API.

On the other hand, the ACEA makes VERY clear distinctions among different classes of motor oils, and the expected severity of service. That includes oil change intervals, which can be as long as 24 months or 30,000 miles on some cars over there

Try that stunt with cheap generic crap API motor oil, and the motor WILL be a sludged up mess

 

The Mobil 1 0W20 that a lot of us are using is rated ACEA A1/B1-04, no mention of A3 or B3/B4. Is this perhaps going to cause problems for us over the 10K mile recommended interval?

I think Germain Castrol is available at BMW dealers in the U.S. marketed as BMW oil.

Does anyone know it the Toyota branded 0W20 has an ACEA rating?