When Should You Refuse to Accept a "USED" New Prius

I love New York.

 

Isn't there a law that once sold as new, they can no longer sell it as new?

 

Why is it when you post things soliciting people's opinions you spend the rest of the thread berating them about those opinions? You've turned what should be an interesting discussion into a confrontational deposition. Really annoying.

150 miles or so is really common when the car is a lot car. If its a car that you specifically have ordered and it has been assigned to you via the VIN, a Toyota will usually have about 7 miles on it because of the testing they do at the factory, the port, and at the dealer. Nobody should ever test drive a specific car that you have a deposit on.

In order for a car to be "used" it has to have been previously titled to an owner. Even a dealer demo car that might have 5,000 miles on it is not legally "used". "Used" cars have different financing rates, and multiple owners will appear on the title and carfax. If you buy a dealer demo or a car with 200 test drive miles on it they finance them as new cars and you appear as the sole owner. Thats why dealer demos can be such a good deal.

Down the road 5 years from now, you aren't going to care that the car had 150 miles when it was new...

 

Many years ago dealers had a demonstrator car for each model. I do not like their current practice of using all new cars as demonstrators. I think many test drivers want to see "what it will do" and mistreat a new engine that has not been broken in yet. If a car has more than 5 miles on it, I consider it a demonstrator and would not pay a "new" price for it. It would have to be discounted considerably for me to buy it.
When we ordered our 2 Prii one year ago, I told the salesman that I did not want them to be driven more than the minimum needed for service. When we picked them up one week apart they each had 2 miles on them.

 

This "simple" question isn't so simple. The attached file is a ruling from the Arkansas Court of Appeals. A truck with 120 miles was sold as new although a thief drove it for 40. A jury decided it was a "used" truck & awarded damages. The verdict was upheld 5-4.

From page 6:
The dissenting judge’s disagreement is founded on his mistaken notion that the
Arkansas Motor Vehicle Commission Act is “applicable law†in the context of this case. His
position is misguided. The reason that a “new vehicle†is defined in the Act is not to regulate
sales by motor vehicle dealers to third parties, but instead to distinguish between “new motor
vehicle dealers†and “used motor vehicle dealers.†Both types of dealers must be licensed,
and the applicable licenses have requirements that differ. ​

​

​

​

Compare Ark. Code Ann. §§ 23112302
and 23112607.
The purposes for the differing requirements are many, but chief among them is to
prevent used auto dealerships from operating as flybynight
businesses that engage in the
sort of fraud commonly associated with such concerns. See Ark. Code Ann. § 23112601.
It is instructive in this context to note that the definition of “used motor vehicle†in § 23112602(
8) includes not only those vehicles that previously have been sold and titled, but also
any vehicle that has been “so used as to have become what is commonly known as a
secondhand or previously owned motor vehicle.†Thus, the Act itself contemplates a vehicle
that has never been titled but is nevertheless “secondhand†by virtue of the use or abuse to​

which it has been subjected–like the vehicle in this case.

The OP asked for opinions. I believe I'm entitled to an explanation of the mileage on the car before I buy it. Obviously there will be some as it was driven during the delivery process. If the mileage can be accounted for in the delivery then I don't have a reservation up to 250. (Holman Toyota says they'll drive a car 500 miles in a dealer trade. Higher mileage is hard to sell as a new car.) However, if the car was on the dealer's lot for a month & has 100 miles then I'm inferring it was used for test drives & would be less happy.

I also agree with Evan. If I ordered a car then I expect only delivery mileage. If I'm buying something off a lot then it isn't "my" car until I pay for it.

We want test drives but we don't want the car we drove because it has some mileage. Perhaps dealers should charge for the ride since the buyer is expecting a reduced price.

My V-AT came from MD & I drove it before I bought it so it had the highest mileage of any new car I owned. If the car is just sitting I would expect 5 or 10 miles on the odo.

 

It depends on the dealer, some dealers still do that, have a demonstrator for test drives and some dealers test drive all the models on the lot.

Personally I won't buy a specific car until I have taken THAT CAR for a test drive...so the practice of having a demo doesn't work for me.

Really? So if a car has 7 miles on it you wouldn't pay a new price? I think thats pretty unreasonable.

Well...if it was stolen then I would not consider it new. My personal opinion is that you have the opportunity to inspect the vehicle and the mileage before you buy it...then you have the opportunity to raise objections about that mileage before you buy it. I suspect the issue in this case really was that the vehicle had been stolen and the purchaser not informed of that before the purchase.

Oh I definitely agree that you're entitled to an explanation of any significant mileage.

 

To answer the OP's question (since many responses have not ), that's a personal decision.

Personally, I primarily order my cars, and tell the dealer that nobody (except the PDI tech) should drive my car prior to my taking delivery.

My Prius had 2 or 3 miles on it, and most cars I've purchased had 5 miles +/- (expect Porsches, which generally have 10 -15 since they're test driven on the autobahn).

Checking the odometer should be part of the pre-delivery inspection you do. Caveat emptor.

 

That's an interesting case. I would guess the jury award had much more to do with the idea that the vehicle had been stolen and possesed by a thief than the idea that it actually had 40 miles added to an additional 80.

I'd be curious as to whether the suit eminated from dissatisfaction based on mileage or mileage disclosure or more likely discovery post purchase that the vehicle was stolen and recovered.

My guess is the latter.
​

 

My answer to the specific question is that I have no "set" or "approximate" number of miles after which I deem a car to no longer be "new."

Instead, I look at the circumstances.

For a vehicle model I'm not familiar with, I won't settle for a 2 or 5 mile test ride. It takes me longer to (i) become generally familiar with its ride and engine responsiveness; (ii) to see what the ride quality is on broken pavement or the equivalent; (iii) to see what it's like on the highway (does it wander? how does it handle rain grooves; etc.). If there are models with differing handling, I need to try more than one car -- evidence, Gen II Touring vs regular.

So, I'm not distressed with mileage on a car as such. I'd sooner, given my test ride example above, see if the salesperson came with me to ensure I didn't flog the car, which one did every time I tried one out except one.

Interestingly, two dealers I talked to would have had to get the exact car I wanted from a dealer a fair distance away. They both, before I asked, described how they're transported, at least in their cases. Each used retirees who got a sign-off on "time departed" from the dealer which had the car, and the time in was recorded in turn. Each dealer said they stressed to the drivers that driving too fast etc. would mean no more work. I believed them. And, I have no objection to miles accumulated this way -- what do they hurt, if that's what it takes to get the car I wanted?

As to cars from domestic factories of two of the former "Big 3", as of at least ten years ago, the plant manager, manufacturing area managers, and others took random new cars home each night to judge quality etc. I don't know if the third did so or not. (Yes, I know, it's a perk too, but at that level, they already qualify for subsidized car programs.) And, I'm glad they do it; in the case I'm most familiar with, the car then goes out with a statement of miles put on at the plant to test quality. If it troubles you, don't buy it.

"New" vs "Used" for an unregistered vehicle seems to be a state-regulated issue, as each state enacts its own motor vehicle codes, rules for registration, etc. The Arkansas case is one state's view ... decided by one vote of the justices. And, as a buyer, you can establish your own personal standard.

It's funny. We buy used cars and don't know if the gas was floored away from every stop-light. But a few hundred demo miles causes such consternation.

 

There are laws that sets the maximum mileage a car is still can be sold as new.
Check you local DMV.
Many years ago, some car dealer manager used the new cars in the lot as personal cars and rack up miles on it and sell it as new. It was busted and the court set laws against this in most states.

 

As long as it is legal, the dealer should sell it as new. If low mileage is one of your considerations, you should inform the dealer, just like if you want a particular color or package. That said, once mileage starts going up, I might try to get a discount from the dealer.

 

Mine had 7 miles. That's about the max I'd accept, but come to think of it, that may have been one test drive too many.

 

That's fine New Yorker but sometimes a question can't be answered that cut and dry.

As it was in your own personal case, you admit that there were circumstance that made you accept the situation. Well when it comes to mileage on a new vehicle everyone has individual and personal feelings about what they would accept. I don't think most people are carrying a chart or graph with exact numbers as to what they define as new.

So you might want just a flat answer, but you are asking for opinion. I think for many people it's a moving target. What is acceptable might change from person to person and even from deal to deal.

 

97.2 miles is the absolute maximum that any non gelded male would accept in a "new" car and anyone that takes one with more than that (never mind more than twice that), has serious manhood problems and probably puts shiny tape all over his car.

There, is that precise enough for you?

I am sure that all the car dealers who read this forum faithfully will benefit from my opinion.

 

My car had 17 miles on it and I thought that was a bit too much. My own opinion would be not over 50 miles for a new car. Over 100 miles would be unacceptable to me.

 

The situation also works the other way. Chrysler had so much new inventory on the lot they allowed dealers to classify them as used. So there were used cars with 0 (in theory) miles.

The local Chevy dealer hasn't been able to sell a new Corvette that is a MY old.

So we have "new" cars with "high" mileage and "used" cars with "low" mileage.

 

Yes. A car can only be sold as new once.