Sub under seat with nav/jbl??

Do you even read what is written or do you just shoot your mouth off?

Just want to make sure here...you did say GX470, right? Let me quote you:

and this is what you wrote:

Show me where it says that your Gx470 Mark Levinson subwoofer is 20 cm. It is 6.5" woofer in a small enclosure. And yes, your front door speakers are 6x9. Dude, where did you get those speaker sizes? Those look like they belong on a ES350 ML system or something...definitely NOT GX470!!!! Where did you pulls those specs out off? (Hint: it uses the same subwoofer & compartment as the LX470.)

And this is the guy who is giving audio advice!!! He can't even tell what speakers are in his own car!!

As for subwoofer displacing air, this is true. However, you can potentially displace the same amount of air via quantity. That is, if you have 4 small subs, then you can displace a similar amount of air as a big sub. Of course, a big sub can go lower in frequency and this is the one advantage to a big sub. This is why JBL can get away with the 4-small sub model in a CAR.

Again, i am not sure what you mean about full-range. The JBL door woofers are NOT full-range. They just make midbass and bass. There are no vocals through it. No highs. And, as noted above, they don't need to hit below 40Hz either for 95% of music out there, despite what you have written. Get it yet??!!

My Martin Logan Vantages have an 8" woofer. It is good enough for music, but does not work well for movies because WITH MOVIES, you need a true low-hitting sub for the bombs and thunders!

Highend sound or not depends on tuning. This is something that YOU have not understand. The ML system or the ELS system (on the TL) are tuned very well and this makes day/night difference in the listening experience. And as YOU have LEARNED from my post above, you don't need a big hunking subwoofer to make good music.

Want to hear something funny? You quote all this BS about THX etc.. Do you know what subs are in the Lincoln MKZ THX-certified system? Ready? There are two subwoofers...guess what size they are!!!!! 6x9s!!! Ouch!

Keep taunting...i am enjoying proving you wrong over and over and over again....

Thanks...keep it coming! My guess is that rrolf will be quiet from now on....

 

OK you two audiophile/snobs! Most Prius owners agree that the JBL audio low end is pretty darned bad. How about suggesting a decent system at a bargain price. Yeesh!

 

To each its own. All this talk of sound requirements. Anyone who thinks the factory upgraded system offered in OEM is just rationalizing the cost or just is very forgiving when it comes to sound quality. The only factory upgrades I have heard that sound really good are the dynaudio system in Volvo and VWs. Interestingly the dynaudio factory system use the same speakers you buy when you buy dynaudio speakers for mobile audio.

Music is just too personal to be right or wrong. If Thai is ok with the JBL system in the Prius then all the better for him. As for me. The 6x9 and 6.5 does not get anywhere close to being adequate for my listening pleasure. Also I am pretty sure the 6x9 does produce frequencies up to about 2000hz so it does produce a little mid range. I have a 12" Dynaudio SUBWOOFER going in my Prius II very soon. That should take care of all the frequencies from 100hz down to about 35hz due the sealed box I am building.

 

Amazing, where do you guys get these specs from? It is equally interesting that most critics of the JBL are from owners of Prius II...most of them probably haven't even heard the system!

BTW, rationalization works both ways too...you guys are rationalizing at what a bargain it is to buy aftermarket parts instead of upgrading to Prius III.

 

Can't we all just get along?




"It's a subwoofer!" / "over my dead body it is!"

 

lol

 

Ok, finally had time to Google...here is a review of the GX470 Mark levinson system on Edmunds.com: Full Test: 2003 Lexus GX 470

"The speaker array in the GX 470 is most impressive. It begins with a three-way configuration of drivers in the front doors, which includes a 6-by-9 full-range driver at the bottom, a 3.5-inch midrange in the middle and a one-inch titanium dome tweeter up top. In addition to this, the top of the dashboard boasts a 3.5-inch driver which operates in the midtweet frequency range. (This driver fires upward into windshield glass, reflecting outward into the cabin and is responsible for much of the system's impressive stereo imaging.) Other drivers include a pair of 6.5-inch coax speakers in the rear doors, plus a pair of 3.5-inch midtweets in the rear gate. Lastly, the system offers a 6.5-inch subwoofer mounted in a 7-liter enclosure in the passenger-side rear-quarter panel."

Wow, rrolf is the audio "expert" yet he doesn't even know his own car!! Ouch!! And then he goes and quote some BOGUS specs on another Mark Levinson system!! That is pretty pathetic.

No need to personally thank me rrolf, you can just click THANKS button!

rrolf...

EDIT: i even found a pic of the GX470 sub: (does that look like an 8" sub to anyone?!)

 

Yeah, sorry about going off-topic. IMO, what you did is the only way to upgrade the JBL bass. Sorry again.

 

Well I guest you are the later then, just very forgiving when it comes to sound quality..

Whatever works for you. I don't justify aftermarket parts as my sub is more than the upgrade to a prius III. I purchased a prius two so I don't have to complete rip out the crap for a JBL amp and speakers.

 

Could be...but, where did you get the spec that the JBL woofers play up to 2000 Hz?? Can you provide the link? or some sort of measurements that you have done? Or did you pull that out of thin air?

I am quite interested in the specs of the JBL system. Thanks.

 

We've come to the place where we are arguing if you can make a 6.5" sub (You can, there are even 5" subs), and what size subwoofers rrolf has in his car (don't really care).

Who are you going to believe, posters on priuschat or your own lying ears? Ok, totally agree with V8Cobrakid, but just just because that is what my ears tell me. IMHO, the OP made a good choice for him. Now back to the gun fight.

What, um, fine. Where did that rather bizarre quote come from? How about you only need to start at 70hz? Your standard guitar tuning starts around 80, and guitars are my favorite instrument. Sure if you want to throw out some low notes from keyboards, pianos, synthesizers, organs, low strung bass, etc you don't really need it to go bellow 40. Hey only a really small percentage of notes are played bellow 70hz. If your systems does well (-3db or less with less than 1% harmonic distortion) down to 40hz you'll probably be happy. But the JBL system had muddy sounding base to me. Once you are going to improve the sound why not be able to hear all the instruments in various compositions.

Again the sound of the sub notes can not be located. We don't have any senses to locate them, as reported in numerous experiments. Position will create different attenuation, reflextion/refraction, and vibration. You can hear these distortions. So position matters.

Your hate of JBL's perfect system is making the oil spill worse.:fencing::fencing:

Wow, there is a lot there, I'm not sure I saw any information. I was pointing out that JBL did not chose this/size and crossover. If they thought it was superior they (or someone would sell components like this). I'll take it from your verbiage that you agree that it is doubtful the choice is ideal.
This is a toyota design that constricted JBL's design choices.:focus:

Show us pictures and let us know how it sounds.

 

Different applications require different tuning/sizes/etc.. Unlike an aftermarket system, a stock/OEM sound system is usually designed along with the vehicle...so, unlike the past, today's car systems are rarely an afterthought. The "toyota design" may also be a JBL-Toyota collaboration design. Again, i would love to see where you guys get these "facts" from.

Maybe we should make a poll on who loves or hates the JBL. Seemingly for you, it takes just one person other than yourself to make it "unanimous"! Hell, CNET or similar glowing review is certainly not as good as some guy on the net, right?

 

I remember reading on a forum somewhere about the crossover points in the JBL amp in the prius. I have a 2000hz tone I like to try on that 6x9 in the JBL system though. I did try on my prius II and it did play thru the 6x9..

I would figure the tuning and design concept for any oem system would be cost. What the engineers could get away and still sound decent... hmmm not like it was designed with no expense is too much to achieve sound quality. Just weight the speakers in any modern premium system and you can tell they are crap!

 

I'm just jumping in here based on a cramped mobile device - if my GX 470 really has a 6.5" sub - I stand clearly corrected.

On the subject of all 4 (2 6x9 and 2 6.5) woofers being subwoofers - they are not.

Now lest I taunt you a third time, be off... I will be back.

 

Yes not subwoofers.

 

I'm beginning to think that this thread needs it's own dedicated moderator.
Different people have different standards for what sounds "good" to them.
My Prius Gen 3, Pkg 4 with JBL/Nav sounds "better" than either the base or JBL systems I've listened to in Gen 2 Prii...but it's still a far cry from what I've come to expect from even modest aftermarket systems. It's obvious (to me) that Toyota and/or JBL spent some time custom tailoring the speakers/amplifiers/crossover/equalization in the Gen 3 JBL system....but they did so with serious weight, $, speaker size & location limitations in mind. The 6x9's & 6.5's are no doubt receiving all the way down to the lowest frequencies conveyed from the factory amp, but the response of these speakers, I suspect, rolls off sharply below 80Hz (speculation on my part, not measured with an RTA). A true sub-woofer, in many applications, is crossed-over to play no higher (or at least roll off above) 80Hz. In fact, many ported sub-woofer enclosures actually have their ports tuned to frequencies as low as 35Hz. At best, I think you could make an arguement that the 6x9 & 6.5's in the Prius are acting as woofers or mid-bass drivers, but they are probably not effectively reproducing frequencies below 80Hz. These frequencies are more important in music than you might think.....you can get by without them, but when you've got them there's no going back.

 

I'm not sure which facts you are refering to that you think we are making up. Note thamt JBL is allowed to use conventional sized woofer/tweeter component sets in the higher price higher weight avalon. Toyota clearly put some constraints on a combination of weight/size/price and probably specified the hard to replace 65mm "squawker" size and frequency range. If you listen to it with good ears you can tell its a compromise.

As I and others have repeatedly said, if you like the sound, great your done. I don't care what a poll says if it tells me purple is the best color, I'm still not going to paint everything purple. CNET is no authority when it comes to sound. The OP like myself and many others here didn't like the low frequency response of the woofers (not subwoofers, since they don't exist in the prius), and it should have been about improving the sound. If you can't hear what we are/were missing you probably can't contribute.

 

Read more on the JBL system: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...dio-system-information-pretty-impressive.html

I just hate it when i'm right!

 

Oops, did not see this post. The Avalon JBL system was designed BEFORE the Camry JBL system...and at least according to EDMUNDS.com editors, the Camry JBL is better than the Avalon's. Therefore, the Avalon system uses the "old-school" approach of using 6.5 woofers in the doors, 1" tweeters in the A-pillar (and upper rear doors), a center channel, and a subwoofer in the rear deck. The way the tweeters and woofers are mounted in the Avalon is much different than what you would see in subsequent JBL systems AND Mark Levinson systems in Lexus vehicles. The latter systems arrange their speakers in the corners underneath the windshield, with the front door speakers putting out mostly midbass and bass.

Like i said previously, ideally, you would want a 4" midrange AND tweeter together under the windshield at the corners of the dash (aka Mark Levinson setup). This provides the best sound image and stage, unobstructed by people/steering wheel in the car (like what would happen if you mount the tweets in the A-pillar). But, with cost constraints, JBL (who is under the same umbrella as Mark Levinson) uses high-quality midtweets instead of the more expensive setup used in the Mark Levinson system. So, yeah, i guess that there is some cost constraint involved in designing the Prius (and Camry) JBL system, but "conventional" speakers would not be appropriate in the new setups unless you have a Mark Levinson sticker in your car. And even then, the old conventional size of 6.5"/1" combo is going out the door, in favor of 4"/0.75-1" combo.

More and more highend car audio systems follow the same arrangement as what you would find in the new JBL and Mark Levinson setup. And as such, there are a variety of midtweet sizes used by different companies. My prediction is that, in the near future, there will be more mid-tweets available aftermarket from aftermarket speaker companies and hopefully, more standardization of midtweet size. Why? They must accomodate because the factory systems are going this route.