Mystery Hybrids

Where I am in New York City, the MTA bus system uses Orion VII diesel-electric hybrid buses... I think it's a mild hybrid system though, because I have never seen one of those Orion VIIs run in stealth mode (the diesel engine seems to be running all the time on those buses, even when the bus isn't moving). I guess that's the Allison hybrid transmission developed for buses.

 

DGS (Dept of General Services) in CA has a plug in Prius that I saw in a parking garage downtown when I was down there for an interview a couple of months ago. It must be aftermarket because it was a second Gen Prius. I did not have a camera with me at the time.

SMUD (Sac Muni Utility Dist) has a hybrid Navistar with a manlift attached in the loadspace that I saw a couple of months ago.

Its just the leading edge of the wave, man. :hippie: :madgrin:

 

That was my first impression too because the diesel engine kept running. They are indeed series hybrid buses.

 

we also have hybrid diesel electric buses here. i posted a pic of one about 4-5 years ago. they have been around here FOREVER. we also have those mini-buses that run on bio-diesels.

they are both built by a subsidiary of GM....ya funny.

but the big buses claim to save 1-2 mpg... which does not seem like much, but with the hills around here, that is 16-20% fuel savings. which aint great, but definitely not bad.

with the extra cost of the hybrid option attached, depending on the route driven, they take 7 to 18 years for ROI which would be nice except they only run them 5 years then replace them.

i am more than happy to pay the extra money and not expect it in return. i only have to look at the Gulf to justify my decision. i would much rather have an all electric bus system. at least in the downtown area where the infrastructure improvement costs could be justified. problem is, it would be nearly all peak usage, but still better than gas. but i digress, so i will stop here

 

The hybrid system may be provided by GM, but I am pretty sure the buses are built by New Flyer, which is not a subsidiary of GM.

 

"xxxx (fill in your favorite carmaker here) will come out in xx months (fill in your magic number here) with a Prius killing hybrid xxxx (fill in your favorite model here)".

See it every week in this section of the forum.

"Mystery Hybrids" indeed!

 

corporate ownership changes all the time. i do know that when i posted the pic, it was made by a company based in Canada and they were, at that time, a GM owned company.

considering GM's recent financial situation, its not a stretch to imagine them divesting several holdings

 

New Flyer is from Winnipeg and has never been a GM company to my knowledge. Orion is from Ontario and is owned by Daimler. Nova is from Quebec and owned by Volvo. I believe Nova took over a plant that made the GM designed Classic and RTS and continued to produce them for a while, but I don't think GM ever owned Nova.

Do you have a picture of the bus?

 

had one, but apparently my photo album was removed...probably on last server change. i will look.

trying to find links on article that was published, not having good luck. i have one article that states they are buying their "first 6 diesel-electric buses" in april 2009 with stimulus money which is about as inaccurate a statement that i have ever seen in print.

i found another that states they started using them in 2002 but does not say who built them.

 

ahh...from the Detroit Free Press in 2007... granted is Seattle and not Olympia, but...

Article: GM strikes deal to sell hybrid buses in Seattle. | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

 

You are making a statement with perfect hindsight. Decisions for budgeting and purchasing those buses were likely made in the face of $4-$5/gal diesel fuel several years back. The payback period is much shorter at those fuel price levels.

 

actually the article referenced was from 2003 or 2004. i actually checked a more recent article from last year. they have instituted a new maintenance program where now they are using buses up to 15 years. so a greater payback would be realized.

Every Day is Earth Day

a quote from the article really makes me feel proud for some reason (havent ridden the bus in over 10 years)

Operating in the environmentally sensitive Puget Sound region, a small city transit system is making big differences through its commitment to the environment. Intercity Transit, the public transportation agency for Thurston County, has made sustainable practices an operational priority, including referencing sustainability in its public mission statement “to provide and promote transportation choices that support an accessible, sustainable, livable, healthy, and prosperous community.†The agency has been a leader in earth-friendly operations, including being among the first transit systems in the nation to fuel its entire bus fleet with biodiesel fuel, as well as install electric car plug in stations and employ broad recycling and conservation measures.

 

Thanks, that article says the buses were built by New Flyer. A lot of articles seem to do that. They mention GM's hybrid system, Ballard fuel cells, or something like that, but the bus manufacturer is buried under several paragraphs or not mentioned at all.

I'm not sold on hybrid buses yet. They are still quite expensive and I'm not certain if it's the best use for tax dollars. I've heard battery life estimates of 7-10 years meaning that in many cases, they will have to be replaced during the bus's lifetime.

 

many areas are not sold on them either. although Olympia now employs "an extended" maintenance program designed to keep buses on the road for 15 years or more, that still would not payback the hybrid premium cost which i believe to be around $70-80,000 per unit.

but then again, sometimes we feel that reducing fossil fuel usage "pays dividends" in other ways besides direct dollars and cents.

 

I've seen very similar trucks around Los Angeles for Coca Cola.. it's fun hearing them in "stealth"... the transmission spin still sounds like an engine... but a small gas engine instead of a huge diesel.

 

It's a shame that GM, Goodyear, and Big Oil conspired to end the trolleys in favor of busses...

 

Reply to original post / thread starter:

Hill, perhaps several companies (fleets) were chosen to be part of the PHEV test fleet, and AT&T was one of them. It is possible that Toyota wants these cars to be tested in real world situations, and both Toyota and the fleet operators do not want "Plug-In Hybrid Test Vehicle" plastered all over the cars. They don't want people following their curriers around, asking 50 billion questions. And, Toyota likely doesn't want one of these precious cars to disappear (theft), and so actually instructed the fleet owner to not post "Plug In" on the side of the car.

If it was an individual/after market, I'm sure they would want everyone else on the road to know they they had created a Plug-In.

As for the diesel-electrics, perhaps because they are still largely test vehicles, the trucking companies want to stay under the radar until they see some positive reliability and MPG data from the vehicles.
(FYI: UPS was in the news last week, because they added 200 Hybrid UPS trucks into their fleet last week)