1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Drill, baby, drill,,oops!

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by icarus, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,364
    15,509
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Skandi ROV1 and ROV2 are starting to show some of the out case of the cap! The alignment, triangle metal fins are no longer being obscured. The leak flow around the the base of the cap is substantially reduced.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. Guy in WNY

    Guy in WNY Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    83
    17
    0
    Location:
    Western New York
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    The live video feeds are amazing!
    If you go to the BP web site, www.BP.com, there is a link that takes you to a page where you can link to the ROV’s. There are 6 ships on site, each with 2 ROV’s. They do a bunch of things, like provide lights; some are the “tool boxes†you see the working ROV’s go over to and get tools from; some are working in the nearby staging area. This is a complex task these folks are doing, more along the lines of sending a man to the moon then running an R/C car or plane. Just think about all the anchor lines they have to dodge and all the problems with staying on station. (I’ve heard there are at any time 16 to 36 ships at the site for support.) The heavy lifting rig on site lowered those shears that cut the pipe, a mile down, then held it steady enough to cut a 21†pipe! By the way, the shears themselves weigh several tons. There was tons of debris to be cleared away just to get to the BOP.
    There’s nobody that wants to see this over more than BP, trust me. But nobody wants it to get worse. Caution is the go word.
    It’s like that one guy who survived said, “Everything they said couldn’t go wrong – DID!â€
     
  3. drees

    drees Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    1,782
    247
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
  4. Jimmie84

    Jimmie84 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    1,074
    77
    0
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    There aren't thousands of wells being drilled, but there are many thousands of wells in production now in the Gulf of Mexico, which is why you aren't already paying $6-$7 a gallon for gas. BOP's are only used while drilling. After the well is completed it is fitted with a "tree", that is, a series of control valves.

    Also, down in the production tubing, are valves that if there is a loss of press, will close in automatically. That's why after the hurricanes, Katrina and Rita, then a few years later, Gustav and Ike, there was very little pollution even though there were wells, in fact, whole platforms sheared off. The total pollution was what was in the lines on the platform.

    The BOPs used in deep water (aka subsea BOPs) are already doubled systems... there are two annular preventers, two VBR's (Variable Bore Rams), etc. There are two sources of hydraulic pressure to operate them.

    This accident has a series of contributing factors, not just the BOP.

    Factoid:

    The Gulf of Mexico accounted for about 29 percent of U.S. crude oil production and 11 percent of natural gas output last year, according to the U.S. Energy Department. About 24 percent of America's total oil production came from wells in Gulf waters more than 1,000 feet deep. About 5 percent of U.S. gas output came from wells at such depths. New exploratory drilling in water depths of more than 500 feet will be banned under the six-month moratorium.


    I've been watching the ROV's from this link.
    BP Gulf Oil Spill Multicam 4x3
     
  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    So 29% of 4,950,000 barrels (produced in the US per day) out of the 19,498,000 barrels (used in the US per day) is 7.36%. A lot more than I thought, but still rather small.

    Anyone know the cost of oil purchased as imports vs. the cost of oil purchased from in-country rigs?
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,364
    15,509
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Watching Enterprise ROV2, it looks like the angular alignment fin on the right side may be moving relative to the BOP. I hope it is just an optical illusion due to the station keeping but it looks real.

    The problem is any mechanical motion runs the risk of repetitive stress fractures and something bad happening.

    C-SPAN interview with Rep. Gene Taylor, D-MS, reports they have to keep some of the vent valves on the cap open to keep the pressure from blowing the cap off. He is one of the better sources about what is going on. He also pointed out the unique currents that are keeping Mississippi coasts relatively clear . . . for now.

    HOLY CARP! It is moving relative to the BOP.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Correct. The Tree is also used to separate the oil/gas/water/mud mixture that comes out

    They usually work, though are one of the more unreliable components. What usually happens, they fail CLOSED and must be "fished" out

    That didn't happen in this case

    Correct. Those were operating wells, not exploratory/drilling operations

    Correct. The incredible pressure at those depths requires that sort of system. Again, what usually happens is that the BOP will fail CLOSED, not jam in a partially closed position

    It has been my experience performing Failure Mode Analysis that an accident almost always has a chain of contributing factors. Just one link in the chain, eg just one factor itself, isn't enough to cause the accident

    Keep in mind that the BOP is mechanically jammed in a partially closed position. The hydraulic operating rams are mechanically sheared and are incapable of operating
     
  8. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    any reduction in what we produce will immediately raise our expenses. we have no extra capacity so be it 25% or 7 %, it will still hurt us and hurt us a lot. i can only hope that foreign oil suppliers will realize this and try to take us to the cleaners
     
  9. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    971
    208
    0
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Oil is a commodity. In general, the cost is the same.
     
  10. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I have a technical question for those with experience in this area: How do they track the location of the drill when doing directional drilling? I am familiar with some of the systems used for directional boring, but I haven't a clue how it works 13,000 feet down.

    Thanks,
    Tom
     
  11. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    radar, radio transmitter CEP?? (Core Earth Positioning....oh never mind!!)
     
  12. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Sperry developed the original drill bit tracking systems, now they are commonplace. Tracking both inclination and azimuth involved gyro compasses originally developed for missiles.

    To actually "steer" the drill bit is much more complex. They would usually have to pull the entire string, put in a special "bent" section, then rebore to get the rough steer they wanted

    It didn't take long for the development of drill bit motors that ran off the mud pressure itself. This proved costly and troublesome, so the next step was development of Rotary Steerable Tools. This gadget for example

    APS Technology | Rotary Steerable Motor (RSM)

    makes horizontal and directional drilling almost straightforward
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    As far as sending the signal back Top, it is usually transmitted in the mud or in the string itself
     
  14. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    That's what I thought but I wasnt sure.

    I said it before gas went up $5/gal and people were complaining, during, and saying it now. Gas needs to go up to $8/gal $10/gal. Tax the crap out of it. Make sure a percentage of that tax goes to renewable energy research, some to road/bridge developement maintaining and so on. It is way too cheap now.
     
  15. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    2,927
    782
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
     
    4 people like this.
  16. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    "You guys are f*****"

    HAHAHA!
     
  17. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    As a consultant, how much do you charge for an opinion like that?

    :D

    Tom
     
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    "Hahaha you guys are f*****

    That will be $48,867.21 please"
     
  19. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    4,319
    1,527
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I

    http://www.ogs.ou.edu/highlightsfiles/HDRILLChap4DirDrill.ppt

    Great details. Note the slide on how a relief well is used to stop the blowout.
     
  20. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    4,884
    976
    0
    Location:
    earth
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I never would have thought that nearly two months on, there seems to be no end in sight! And now the Brits are calling for the US to "back off" beating up on BP!

    Now after all of this, I still hear little or no call for any change in our usage behavior, only name calling about whose to blame, as though if only once we assess blame, everything will be alright. No mention of the fact that this could happen again,, tonight or tomorrow,,,,

    Icarus