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Suspicious of recall work...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by tylerpriest, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. tylerpriest

    tylerpriest New Member

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    Has anyone else experienced a strange synchronicity?

    On Tuesday, June 29th, I finally got around to getting the accelerator pedal recall work done, even though I had experienced no problems with the accelerator. I wanted to comply with Toyota and government regulations and maintain a safe vehicle, since the defect was potentially life-threatening. This was my first and will certainly be my last time to drop my car off at the Hoover Toyota service department.

    Upon dropping off the car at 11:15 a.m., I was told by an attendant that my car would be quickly serviced. The recall letter I had received in the mail said the service could take around an hour or more. Thus, I opted to sit in the waiting room at the dealership. I waited, and I waited. Finally I called a friend to take me to get lunch around 2:30. I had him drop me back off at the dealership at 3:45. I waited for another 45 minutes until finally, my name was called, and my car was ready more than 5 hours later. I thought it was a wasted day in the waiting room, but it turned out to be far more costly than that.

    I drove the Prius home and it seemed all was well. On Wednesday morning, I drove my car to work, and immediately noticed a shaking when I would accelerate, as if the engine was misfiring. I thought that perhaps there were some kinks that needed to be worked out with the accelerator. So I drove on, and the problem seemed to smooth itself out the longer I drove. However, upon driving home from work, I felt something similar.

    On Thursday, I was running an errand for work and felt a sudden and far more violent hesitation and shaking of my car, to the point that the skidding caution light started flashing on my dashboard panel. This concerned me, but I had little time to investigate the problem with Hoover Toyota. The car smoothed out the longer I drove it that day.

    But the problem continued on Friday. As the shaking sporadically continued, I noticed the “Check Engine†light flash on and off. Later that day, after another bout of accelerator hesitation, it stayed on. After that, I stopped driving the car (except to take it back to the Toyota dealership on Tuesday, July 6th exactly one week after it had been serviced). It only made sense to me that because the accelerator pedal had been replaced, this was the related cause of the shaky acceleration.

    I called the dealership Monday afternoon, July 5th, and spoke with the foreman of the service garage, who said the garage was booked up for the rest of that day, but that they could look at it first thing in the morning. So that’s what I did. At lunch on Tuesday, I was called by Ronnie Harralson, who was the bearer of bad news. He told me that after the diagnostic test, it turned out my car was misfiring because of water in the cylinders, which had leaked down from the cowl, and damaged 3 ignition coils and all my spark plugs. He then quickly rattled off a quote to fix the damage at $599.98. At this point, I could not believe my ears. Essentially, I told Ronnie as respectfully as I could that I believed there was a connection between his shop’s recall work on my car, and the apparent misfiring of my engine within 24 hours of getting my car back from Toyota. He insisted it was merely a coincidence and that the hood was never lifted for the recall work. I then asked him why it took over 5 hours to do what should have been a routine accelerator pedal replacement, and I further asked him what had really been going on behind the closed garage door. At that point in time, this eerie coincidence seemed all too suspicious to accept as mere bad luck.

    I had further questions as to how water could ever get into my cylinders, and how this could have suddenly surfaced as a problem the day after Toyota had possession of my car, even though no rain or water had touched my car in more than 2 weeks. I then asked him if, considering the economy and the recent public relations of Toyota, that his garage might be desperate enough to fabricate their own business. He insisted this was not the case. I am still not persuaded…
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I agree that the timing of the events seems suspicious.

    Is the car back in your possession now? If so, and if you can DIY, it would be interesting for you to remove the four spark igniters and the four spark plugs to see what they look like. Alternatively if the car is still at the dealership you might visit and ask to be shown those parts.

    If you see lots of rust on the spark plug metal shells, that would be evidence that the water had been accumulating in the spark plug wells over a reasonable period of time.

    If the plugs don't show much signs of rust then it might be possible that water was recently introduced into that area.

    An innocent way that water can enter the valve cover area is after rainfall or a car wash. Water can drip along the center cowl seam and then drip onto the engine valve cover. The rubber O-ring seals that the spark igniters have are not very good, so water can enter the spark plug wells. If this turns out to be your car's problem, the solution is to use a bead of sealant along that center cowl seam.
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Patrick you have mentioned this many times before and I looked at my car and saw that funky little strip of foam that connects the 2 ends. If that foam is rotted away it will leak bad right there.
    Bad design.
    Mine is OK but I always look at it when I open the hood.

    Another thing is when you wash your car spray the water standing in the front of the car towards the back as it seems easy to drive water pass the cowl into the the engine if you stand say right next to the windshield by the mirrors and hose the windshiled down.

    I leaned that a while ago when I noticed the engine was getting a little wet after a wash.

    To the OP Welcome to Priuschat! Unless you've been lurking a long time much to learn and this is the right place to learn.
    There's a few foibles with our cars.

    As far as this repair how does your foam center strip look? If its rotted out your spark plugs will get wet again and you can be assured the dealer was probabaly right. If the foam is ok then suspicions are in order and it may be this:

    You may have the dirty throttle body bore issue too. Check back a few posts of mine as I describe an easy way to clean that. The dirt bore kills the motor and will result in drivability issues and if real bad a dead engine.
    My post decribes how to check it. If the foam is ok and now by a miracle the throttle bore is clean well you may be right.

    Your going to have to do a little investigating under the hood.

    But I don't trust the dealer either. I worry alot if I have to have them deal with my car.
     
  4. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    I could use some clarification on the cowl gasketing. Here is a pix taken
    of my '08 just a few minutes ago:
    Cowl0001.jpg
    There is gasketing in the joint at the lower cowl. I can see no evidence of
    gasketing in the joint behind the windshield wiper arm.
    (I really don't want to take off the wipers motor and cowl to inspect the
    backside.)
    Is there supposed to be gasketing in the long joint behind the wiper
    mechanism?

    Is it is likely that the possible water in the spark plug recesses
    came from a dealer courtesy wash as part of the service?

    Here's why I ask:

    Well, maybe a very lucky end of the story.

    The car came around from the service area dripping wet from a
    courtesy wash. I thought nothing of it.

    It was a 30 min drive to the dealer in 85 degF weather. The ICE water
    temp when I dropped off the car was 194 degF. There was 1/2 hr.
    before the service dept. opened and the service was about 35 min.
    There was about 10 minutes between when the car came "up front,"
    and I drove offf the lot.

    Would these temps and time periods evaporate any water that got into
    the spark plug wells from the courtesy wash before I drove off?
     
  5. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    I took the cowl cover off once but my memory is a bit fuzzy now. I think even if there is no gasket in the long joint you were asking about the leak would be caught by the metal cowl tray below.
     
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  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The foam gasket is present only where you see it. There's no need for a gasket farther up on the seam.

    It's certainly possible that the spark plug well water came from a courtesy car wash.

    It's impossible to answer your last question without knowing how much water (if any) entered the spark plug wells. The cylinder head operating temp remains below boiling point at all times so if much water has entered, it will probably sit there for a while.
     
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  7. tylerpriest

    tylerpriest New Member

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    Patrick, thanks for the great advice. I'll check out my spark plugs tomorrow. If there is no sign of long-term corrosion, I'm marching back to the Toyota service center.

    I'll also look into sealing my cowl.
     
  8. tylerpriest

    tylerpriest New Member

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    Unfortunately they gave me no courtesy car wash. The thing hasn't been washed in several months, actually, which is why I'm all the more suspicious of water getting down into my motor.