Dangerous Smart Key

1) Old news. We have been discussing theoretical attacks on keyless systems for a few years. The proposed methods are simply not practical for the system used on the Prius. It's much easier to haul it off on a flat bed truck.

2) The SKS turns itself off after a few days, so it won't drain a good battery. With the Gen II you can hit the disable button as you suggest, but it's not really necessary. The Gen III lacks the SKS disable button.

Tom

 

I've never seen a fob where the unlock and lock buttons were shared.

Anyway, this is seemingly legit. Although the abstract claims it is practical, I do not know about that.

Basically what it does is put a relay between the key and the car, so that the 3 foot limit is essentially removed. So what someone could theoretically do is follow you around with a transceiver, have another transceiver at the car, hit the door handle, and the signal would go through the relay, hit the key in your pocket, go back through the relay, and the doors unlock.

 

This is different from our earlier discussions about rolling codes and such. The relay technique discussed essentially makes it appear to the car as if the keyfob is closer to it than it is in reality. Two pieces of radio equipment are involved, one within normal keyfob detection range of the car (about 3 feet), and another near the keyfob (say, next to you inside a store). When the car sends out its "are you there" message, the radio equipment relays the signal to its peer near the real keyfob, and the keyfob responds. If the keyfob is in normal button press range, then that is all that is required. If further away, then an additional radio relay is require to send the real keyfob signal back within range of the car.

Sounds plausible. One of the pictures in the article looks like a Gen2 SKS door handle, although the car interior is not a Prius.

The defense against this sort of attack is accurate distance measurement between the keyfob and the car. The article reports that the systems that they tested did not provide this level of security.

 

Happens all the time in chicago. Cops Nab Car Thieves Who Used Tow Trucks - cbs2chicago.com

 

Thousands die every day from drugs / robbery / rape / suicide / burglary / arson / DUI / neglect / negligence ... on and on. I duno ... we might want to worry about the elephants in the room, before we panic about the fleas. And now . . . back to other things, like beating the EPA:



carry on


.

 

Big market in stolen Prius?

Yeah, the easiest thing is just to use a towtruck.

If you're really worried, you could LoJack the vehicle...

But I'll just keep my insurance current...

 

A high end Lexus with the same system would probably be a better target. But a lot easier to develop and test the devices on a Prius since they're so popular.

I think there's a market opportunity here for SKS disable switches for the Gen3.

 

If somebody got a hold of your key for just a few seconds, they could make an impression of it then make a copy of it and drive off in your Pinto.

I hope your Pinto will only be opened and used by authorized people!

 

Well, OK, the Prius SKS system can be worked around/defeated with
some advanced electronic equipment. Interesting but hardly shocking.

I'm not of a mind to get particularly excited about it.

Every day there are more Prii on the road. Every day the probability of
my Prius being the one stolen goes down.

I'm more concerned about the far more likely random sociopath who
for no good reasons decides to take a low-tech tire iron to all the
windows and bodywork on the cars parked in my block on my side of the
street.

I'll gladly volunteer to do a multi-million dollar study on this...
on a street across town of course.

 

no way!!!

 

hill must have found 400 miles of all downhill driving...

 

Actually, lojack doesn't help much either since most experienced thieves can remove the system rather quickly. It's more effective if installed properly, but when most installers only really take 15 minutes to do the installation, you can't expect that it gets done with too much complexity.

 

This comment hits on the heart of most keys, locks, and security systems. Typically they only work to keep honest people honest. A serious professional thief can work around or disable most common systems.

It's not that you can't design secure systems, but laziness and human factors keep most of them from being used. People expect to jump in their cars and drive off, not wait two hours for a background check.

Unless a person is willing to live with the inconvenience and discipline of high security, about the best you can do is make your possessions less attractive than those around them. If your car is locked with an alarm, and the one next door is open with the keys inside, most thieves won't bother with yours. It's the old "You can't outrun a bear...No, but I can outrun you" line.

Tom

 

I semi-recently heard a story about a guy who basically chained his car (including the frame) to the cement floor (I don't know the specifics) of his garage (on top of his other security measures) and dared the thieves to steal it on Honda-tech. I was told it got stolen within a few weeks.

 

The main danger of the Smart Key is when you think you have it in your pocket and you don't and you just about rip your fingers off trying to open the door.

 

The only way you can lock a properly working SKS in the Prius is to:

1) Roll down driver's window
2) Leave SKS in car
3) Reach in window & hit door lock button
4) Reach in window & hit auto-rolllup driver's window
5) quickly remove arm

There! ... now ... do you want the sequence to unlock?

 

Ignoring the fleas, is what led to the Black Plague.

 

ok ... strike fleas ... replace with gnats

I must admit that there CERTAINLY is ONE SKS that is dangerous ... especially if you're breaking into steal, and the home owner uses it for home defense:



. . . . . especially if the have the optional grenade launcher.

 

Cars with SKS can be stolen....Oh no what will I do, what will I do! Guess I'll just have to drive older cars with regular key fobs. Wait, those can be easily cloned and someone could steal my car....... Oh no what will I do, what will I do! Guess I'll just have to get an even older car with key in the door hole locks. Wait, those can be opened with a slim jim, or even a coat hangar and someone could steal my car......Oh no what will I do, what will I do.
Guess I'll just keep paying my insurance premiums.