Edmunds Drives a 99% Production Leaf

There are many people where the leaf is fine, but I can't see it selling well in Chicago for the cold and the range anxiety. I travel a lot on business. Austin where I live now is a good market both for the leaf and the volt. Most people will not drive close to the leaf range most days even downgraded to 60 miles for full ac in a traffic jam, a friendly utility that has cheap rates for night charging, and room to park an old truck for days you need to haul or drive further. I think I would have severe range anxiety in the bay area with its traffic jams, hills and driving patterns. There should be plenty of people for the leaf production the first couple of years, but they may need something like your propane/cng/other for their high sales target in later years. Or in these later years they might have higher capacity battery packs to improve the range.

 

Yes I think that is a good idea, but I would suggest a Propane heater. Natural gas does not compress as easily. Propane is readily available, after all you need it for those barbecues and RVs.

I remember long time ago you could get a gasoline heater for a porsche as an option for cold climates, because an air cooled engine does not provide enough heat under those circumstance. However, I would not suggest a gasoline version for the leaf.

I’m not sure about using NG for AC. That would be an absorption system, like the old style ammonia system. We have that for our refrigerator in our RV, but we are not talking a lot of BTU here. It takes hours to drop the temperature in the refrigerator. A system with sufficient cooling capacity (BTU) for a car of that type would probably be pretty big.

 

Um ... the fossil fueled EV heater is not new. It was standard equipment, even in the 1990's . Here's standard equipment list from the one in GM's S-10 EV:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/s10.pdf

We used to have a batch of these I got to drive at work. They were GREAT ... and the heater'd roast you!

Of course, if you absolutely positively HAD to drive sub-zero in the Leaf, you could go THIS route:



Though not reccommended - because if you didn't have the vent open, even these teeny catalytic heaters could use up all the air in a small cab.
.

 

Next gen Leaf will have 200 mile nominal range. My guess is it will come out as 1st Gen Leaf leases end in 2013/14.

 

Please do not take this as argumenative ... but the first generation is not on the road yet.

You say "My guess" ... it that it? guessing is perfectly permissable, or do you have information to suggest the 200 mile forecast .... and for that matter when the G2 will be available ... please share that with us.

Actually, if you were to read my other post, I am somewhat interested (excited) about the Leaf ... more so than the Volt, so I am not challenging your statement (I hope it is true) but I would be interested in the basis of your "guess."

 

it's all wishful thinking until it happens, keep your fingers crossed!:rockon:

 

Keeping your distance from the car in front of you and not having to touch the brakes very much can do miracles for efficiency. Timing the stop lights has the same effect (note: when you time stop lights, you still get there in the same amount of time). Some of my best MPG trips (in my Corolla) have been with freeway speeds of 85mph and street speeds of 55mph (maybe 60mph at times) because I planned ahead and made sure I never had to touch my brake or allow any engine braking to occur on the freeway, and on the streets, I timed the lights - if a light was red, I took my foot off the gas - if I didn't have enough room, I would brake so that I could keep my car rolling without having to come to a complete stop. With an EV or Prius (well, when I rented a Prius, let's say hypermiling was "awkard" - the display on the dash wanted me to drive like a "normal" person) I assume (hope?) it would be the same. FYI: My best MPG ever in my Corolla so far is 47MPG. With the Prius rental car (paid for by my employer), I don't think I managed that high. The darn battery display was really weird (of course, I was unfamiliar with it).

BTW: I never use AC ... unless I'm wearing a tux and on the way to a wedding or something. Normally, I just crack the windows though and turn the vent fan on full blast.

 

While we're wishing, let's hope that Nissan makes it a free upgrade to those who buy the first-gen Leaf... Or at least buys back the old batteries and sells the new ones at a substantial discount.

 

Nissan has talked about the G2 battery and doubling of range since end of 2009 (search will get you many hits). But they all talk about 2015. My guess is Nissan would like to have it ready when the lease comes up for renewal - they will have new higher range cars to sell and/or upgrade. When ECOtality brought this up in PSRC EV Project meeting - they mentioned three years.

One of the main reasons I'd be most probably leasing Leaf than buying it.

ps : http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/11/nissan-nmc-20091129.html

 

Hi All,

My brother uses a large catalytic heater in his shop during the winter. It does OK to keep things warm. The element is glowing cherry red, and without proper ducting and IR shielding, it would catch any automotive interior materials on fire at a distance of 6 inches. In the shop this is no problem, as its mounted up on a wall, and well away from everything. These catalytic heaters put out a LARGE fraction of the energy as IR photons, and can start fires at at distance.

Which is really why such systems need to be done by the manufacturer of the car and have professional engineering.

 

In all seriousness, is the Prius community the home of the vast majority of future Leaf owners? Are we the natural home of the future EV Owner's of America?

The reason I ask is I used Google the other day to find other Electric Vehicle sites with any evidence of activity. I found one "EV" domain sitter, one do-it-yourself group, but otherwise, nothing showing even a fraction of the activity found at PriusChat.

Understand, I'm good with us being the natural target for EV and PHEV sales. Rather, I was trying to find any other 'community' and other than the usual suspects (aka., Ecomodder, CleanMPG, MyHybridCar, GreenHybrid, and some Yahoo Groups,) I'm not seeing many others.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Check out My Nissan Leaf Forum - Online forum for Nissan Leaf Electric Car
It seems to be quite active.

 

I have personally never accepted the notion that Prius owners would populate the Leaf and Volt showrooms. I believe here on PC, the responders are more savy about the subject, and generally offer favorable comments.

I have taken a very small survey in my neighborhood, where there are 7 Prius', slightly over 6% of households. I am the only PC reader; none of the other 6 are considering an EV "in the forseable future;" all are perfectly happy with their Prius. 4 said they would consider an EV at some future date (not specified). Reliability is a real concern; convenience is problematic because most do not want to be restricted to shorter trips, even though most do not frequently travel great distances.

The community is mostly senior citizens, 3 own other cars, but predominately drive their Prius, even on trips. Many have children and grandchildren living within the state, but would not be comfortable having to recharge to get home.

 

You bring up something that bothers me too. There is a presumption that EV and hybrids will become 'popular' once more are available. Yet I've been monitoring hybrid sales in the "Dashboard" and "GreenCarCongress" and I don't see the demand compared to 2000-2007.

When Toyota dealers had waiting lists and where able to get above list prices, the demand was exceeding the supply. But sometime around 2007-08, they caught up. I'm not talking about the speculative gas price hike but rather dealers can't get a price premium and there are no waiting lists.

Next year, the number of hybrid models will easily double but as recently as last month:

• Prius 10**4 units (10**4 ~ 10,000 or more units)
• Camry, Ford Focus, Insight, (~six models) 10**3 units
• All others, 10**2 units

I don't see doubling the models as boosting hybrid sales of more hybrids into the 10**4 monthy sales or even 10**3 monthly sales.

The only thing that gives me hope is Ford is experimenting with making a hybrid and non-hybrid, luxury car equal priced. This eliminates within one model the price difference. It is very likely that next year, pending no gas price hike, will be a buyer's market for hybrids.

Bob Wilson

 

The real question is when does the gas squeeze resume? After that, everything else is just details.

 

Currently only early adopters and enthusiasts will consider an EV.

Only when someone wants/needs to replace a vehicle do they seriously think about the choices.

A couple of months back I was talking to a colleague about Leaf. He said he can't get it because of 100 mile range. I asked him - how many miles he drives a day ... he thought about it for a while and instead of answering just said he will reserve a Leaf.

 

I am impressed with your power to influence.

 

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