**Moved** Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Not entirely, I bet ambulance drivers, firemen, and police officers have carte blanche. Ignoring that, you are correct. But (again in Washington state) you may still be illegally impeding the flow of traffic, if 5 or more vehicles are slowed by yours.

http://law.onecle.com/washington/motor-vehicles/46.61.427.html

Notice that it does not state you have to be going slower than the speed limit, only slower than what is usual at that time and place. (as I say, someone in the WA legislature hates going slowly)

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

People text message while driving because they judge that they can safely drive and text at the same time. People drive home drunk because they judge that they are sober enough to drive safely. If we were all good judges of what is safe on the roads we wouldn't need traffic laws. While most of us want to be safe, I find that most people let their personal feelings interfere with good judgment. It's easy to rationalize speeding when you are late for work. I would prefer to see good traffic laws and consistent enforcement.

Tom

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Texas law is similar. They can post a minimum speed and you are breaking the law if you enter the flow of traffic on one of these without reasonably being able to go the minimum speed. You are violating the minimum limit if you are impeding the normal flow of traffic even if it is above the posted speed limit. Under the condition of disrupting the minimum flow, you need to be in the right lane if there are multiple lanes and as close to the curb, that is on the shoulder if there is one if its single lane in your direction to allow others to pass. The only way a police officer here would give you a ticket would be if you weren't in the right lane, or he was stuck behind you for a long time. If you are going anywhere close to the speed limit, a judge would throw out the ticket right away unless you were in the left lane.

Note there are cases where going the speed limit is not safe and against the law. Trying to be vigilanty and slowing down traffic in the left lane because others are breaking the law in many states. I was stuck behind an idiot when I was rushing someone to the hospital. I'm sure they had my best interests at heart. And yes, I did not want to wait for an ambulance.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

They're hurting him if he is expected to slow down or pull over so they can pass.

He's leaving on time to get to his destination without having to break the law. Basically you're advocating that he leave even earlier lest he be made late by having to slow down or pull over because some random speeders want to pass him. Or maybe he should break the law to make up time even if he doesn't feel comfortable doing so.

And you're also doing what you've just criticized him for doing. You say that it's OK for people to drive at a speed at which they feel safe but you placed a limitation on it based on what you feel is safe. You can't have it both ways. Either individual judgment can be trusted or society appoints somebody with expert knowledge to make a judgment on what's a safe speed.

But for speed limits I would emphasize my first point. The posted speed limit sets the standard for what drivers can expect from each other. As long as somebody is maintaining posted speed they should not be inconvenienced to allow other drivers to go faster. And at night as long as a driver is maintaining 50mph they should not be expected to move out of the way.

Just to add:
This isn't vigilantism. I stay on the right. I maintain PSL with people behind me on 1-1 roads, I'll drive PSL on the interstate if traffic's solid, I'll lift speed a bit to allow trucks (real ones, not toys) to pass smoothly, I'll slow down or move over to let people pass when a good opportunity presents itself to do so without losing a lot of time because I don't want people stuck behind me.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

I am beginning to understand the roots of the animosity towards Prius drivers that I have heard about.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Both texting and driving drunk are so far more dangerous than doing 10 over the limit that it's hardly even comparable, but I get your point.

FWIW, if we had consistent enforcement of those who posed a real danger, those who speed 80-100mph, then we wouldnt need such an artificially low speed limit. But thats not practical, so the speed limit is set artificially low because people think twice about going too much faster than that for fear of getting pulled over. The slower the speed limit, the slower people actually travel, because they dont want to push it.

That doesnt necessarily mean you're being unsafe by driving moderately over the limit. Again, it's important to understand the intent of the law, rather than just blind obedience. The intent is not to get people to drive under an arbitrary speed, it's to prevent people from injuring/killing themselves and/or others.

Thankfully the majority of police (around here at least), use discretion and dont just blindly pick one of the 99% of drivers going 10 over, they hunt for the ones going 30 over, the real dangers.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Been there, already done that!
Supid limit, nobody drove it anyway!!!

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

You're not making the distinction between the way things are "supposed" to be, and the way things are. In the "ideal" fantasy world, everyone travels under the limit, everyone gets along, no one ever tailgates, etc. In the real world, regardless of the law, people are going to do what theyre going to do.

In fantasy world, the speed limit sets the standard. In the real world, real people set the standard, and deviating too far either way is going to probably be a bad idea for any number of reasons.

None of this would even be an issue if speed limits were reasonable - if the limit on the LIE was 80, I still probably wouldnt go that fast.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

It seems to me that if the speed limit were 80 you would go at whatever speed other people other were driving at because you think that otherwise you would be holding people up. Even though you don't want to go that fast.

It's insane.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

I wish the highway fatality statistics would support this argument.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Maybe the real trick isn't to set a speed limit, but (instead) ration gasoline. Each driver would get a ration booklet (ala WW2 rationing) that allows you 8 gallons of gasoline per week.

You'd see lots of carpooling, slower speeds and utilization of mass transit. But this is a separate topic.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

There is no way to validate either sides' point with statistics that are on US roads with speed limits.

Did they crash because of being aggrevated by a slow moving driver, or a quick lange change to avoid rear ending a slow moving driver? For instance when merging onto an interstate, I am going my final speed when I get to the part where you need to merge and I do. Then when there is someone driving 20mph lower right there you have to either slam on the brakes or move over. That is dangerous for everyone.

Did they crash because they were drunk or impaired otherwise? If so, then that is a lack of judgement of what is safe. Nobody is talking about outlawing alcohol but it is a much bigger problem for driving fatalities. If you drink, you shouldnt drive. And you cannot make the argument about speeders being just like drunk drivers. You can be drunk and driving in reverse and kill someone. Likewise a competent driver who has taken multiple driving classes, skid tests, race handling courses, and so on is less likely to kill someone going double the posted limit.

Remember some portions of the German Autobahn is without speed restriction. There is an advisory speed limit of about 80mph which is more like what the US "speed limit" should be. We reccommend you drive this speed, but go at what is safe.

A 2005 study by the German Federal Interior Ministry (Bundesministerium des Innern) indicated that Autobahn sections with unrestricted speed have the same crash record as sections with speed limits.


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So what's the difference here? It is the competence of the driver, not the speed that they are going. In the US, drivers just suck and are very inconsiderate. The best solution is to revoke all driver licenses. I mean 100% every one of them by a set date. Such as issuing a public warning like the DTV expiration but then actually sticking with it. "Your current license will expire in 01/01/2012 no matter what the date on it states". Then require all drivers to take a serious test and road safety course before they are allowed to drive. It is a joke to drive around here. Then people could drive faster more safely, and more importantly they can drive low speeds more safely intown. Of course this will never happen, but changing all "limits" on A-Class roads in the US to advisories, and there will be a big onrush of fatalities from idiots going faster than they should because they now can. Once the "fun" wears out, fatalities will return to "normal" and aggresion will more than likely taper off a bit. Just like alcohol. Take the drinking age off, and it looses its appeal. Just like marijuana, legalize it and it looses its appeal. It's not cool when mom does it too...

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Now youre putting words in my mouth. Not to mention this is almost completely irrelevant because any road or freeway where the speed limit could safely be set at 80 is going to be more than one lane, thus you wouldnt be holding anyone up as long as youre going at any reasonable speed.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Well, traffic fatalities do go up with the higher speed limit. Thats a fact, and no getting around it. But here's what I think happens. There are normal drivers, and there are crazy people.

If the speed limit is 55, normal drivers will push it as far as 70-75. Crazy people will push it further, to 80-85, because....theyre crazy.

If the speed limit is 75, most people wont go much faster than they otherwise would have. But the crazy people would feel the liberty to do 100+.

This is what I've noticed driving out of state where the speed limits are higher. People do the same 70 they do out here where the limits are 55, but there are far more people going at ridiculous speeds.

Honestly, I'm not at all bothered by the 55 speed limit, because its not enforced, no one follows it, and it seems to do it's job keeping the crazy people from driving insane. What I am bothered by is people actually doing 55 in anything but the slow lane.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Of course this entire thread assumes you have roads that support faster speeds, such as the interstate highway system. Where I live we don't have any limited access divided highways. Our best roads are two-lane (one lane each way) state highways with 55 mph speed limits. Even these roads twist and turn so much that there aren't many stretches where you can maintain 55 for any length of time. In the winter it's even worse.

I've told this story on PC before, but it bears repeating on this thread:

Just north of our village is Beaver Island (Beaver Island (Lake Michigan) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), the largest island in Lake Michigan. At the time of the national 55 mph speed limit law, the Michigan DNR had an officer stationed on Beaver Island. In those days Beaver Island had about 80 miles of roads, most being rutty gravel or two tracks. In response to the new 55 mph national speed limit, DNR headquarters sent out a stern letter stating emphatically: "YOU WILL DRIVE 55!" In one of the all time great replies, the DNR officer on Beaver wrote back: "I'll try, but I don't think I can go that fast."

Tom

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

u can dispute the 55 mph limit all you want, but facts are the slower you drive,

the shorter the stopping distance
the more time you have to react
less momentum which is a good thing before an collision
more friction, tire contact, etc. which is a good thing during evasive maneuvers

it all plays a part.

in the past 10 years, i have been very closely associated with 4 accidents including the one that totaled my 2004 Prius. that accident was essentially less than 6 inches away from being a near miss and most accidents are simply a matter of a few feet in the wrong direction.

now, what we should be debating is whether the # of accidents we currently have is acceptable... but then again, wouldnt be much of a debate now would it??

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

I lived through both of those and it sucked. Setting the speed limit to 55, we called it "double nickels", made a lot of people break the law. People would form long convoys when traveling on the interstates knowing that if they sped by themselves they could get pulled over too easy. If they were in a group of 20-30 cars and trucks their chances of getting stopped were lower. I have seen Louisiana state troopers pull over large strings of car before in the past. But doing that puts troopers and civilians in greater danger, you never know if a truly dangerous person is pulled over in the mix.

As for that rationing, many people would buy gas on their day whether the really needed it or not. That would make long lines at the gas stations and cause more fear in people that made more people top off every other day.

As for mass transit, i would guess that 99% of people here in the US do not have access to true mass transit.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

I grew up with roads only slightly better than this, with higher than average per-vehicle-mile fatality rates, and still spend significant amounts of travel time in similar areas.

It was this type of road that taught me to dislike "California" drivers. Many vehicles with out-of-state plates were unable or unwilling to adjust their high speed tailgating habits to our local roads conditions and driving culture, generating considerable hostility. Cars with California plates, and interstate trucks, were the most common offenders.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

there are a lot of things that suck.

having a loved one killed by terrorists funded by foreign oil (our money!!)

having your livlihood destroyed perhaps for decades due to the negligence of a company who was only trying to meet our insatiable need for oil

having to pay ever increasing costs for medical insurance because of the high cost of dealing with dieases, many of which possibly caused by increased air pollution from cars (#1 suspected reason for the huge increase in childhood asthma in many areas including mine)

ya, there are a lot of things that suck

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

It's not a fact. Read what I wrote before, or lookup the reports that studies the speed limited sections of the Autobahn vs. the unrestricted sections. Crashes are the same.