California Carpool Lane Access and My Transition to Civic GX

This will be my first and probably last post (except to provide feedback on questions to this post) on PriusChat after a couple of years using this site as a great informational resource. I just made the transition from a 2006 Prius to a 2010 Honda Civic GX with much hesitation. I am thinking there are a bunch of other people like me in California who enjoyed the carpool lane and are a little nervous about losing the privelage of solo access. This was the main reasons for the switch. I was very nervous about access to CNG filling stations and the reduced range (200-240 miles) per fillup of the GX. After a few weeks of this transition I can't believe I didn't do it sooner. I remember how I felt back in 2006 thinking I was doing such a great thing for the environment and how great is was getting 48 miles per gallon and how I would be supporting unfriendly nations less by using less gas. This pride I felt from years back is back once again knowing I am able to cut out foreign oil completely, giving Americans more jobs and having less emissions than the prius. The fill stations couldn't be more plentiful or easy (actually faster to pump than the regular stations) not to mention $2 a gallon equivalent at 30+ miles per gallon.

I just wanted to make myself available to anyone who might have a few questions who are debating this transition. To be fair this transition was not all positive with some of the negatives being: the rediculously small trunk space (this is where tank is located), GX does not offer any features such as factory installed Bluetooth or Navigation and the range is half that of the prius.

I was on the list to receive a Honda Leaf and was looking at the upcoming plug ins and volt...but I ultimately chose the GX because of the freedom to fill up in a minute without long charging times, guaranteed solo entry into carpool until 2015, no foreign oil required, and Honda is still selling below sticker (around $24k) with 0% for 60 months. I think once prius owners start losing solo access you will not be able to find the GX available anymore. They only make them for 4 states and only make 10,000 a year with most of those being sold to fleets, so if you strategy is to wait, I have to tell you out of the 20+ Honda dealers I spoke to only 8 were qualified to sell the GX and none of them had more than 5 cars. Something to think about.

Questions or Comments...

 

Interesting post. When does the carpool lane access expire and what impact does this expiration have on CNG cars? Which Honda dealer did you buy your GX from and was the price negotiable?
Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,
The hybrid carpool stickers (yellow ones) are set to expire at the end of this year. The white stickers (all electric or CNG) were extended to 2015 (bill signed and already in law). There is a bill that has not been sent to the governor yet that will extend the yellow stickers an additional six months but that is it. I did hear that if another bill passes granting plug in / hybrids (like the volt) access that the California Air Resources board would convert all HOV solo access vehicles to Green Stickers and limit the number to 40,000. I think we all saw how quickly 85,000 stickers sold out...but so far there are only 10,000 white stickers issued so far.

In regards to the price...I got $23,600 (Norm Reeves Honda) but had to agree to extended warranty to get this price that was an additional $1,800. The warranty that comes with the vehicle is 3 years or 36,000 miles which would be about two years driving for me, so upgrading to 120,000 miles did not seem like a bad deal considering only authorized CNG technicians should do work on it anyway.

One thing I forgot to mention is the $4,000 federal tax credit for this purchase as long as it is purchased new. When I pruchased the prius close to the conclusion of the 85,000 yellow stickers being issued there were no incentives and they were asking $2000-$4000 above sticker price. You can pick-up the Civic GX now for $1,500 below sticker, 0%APR...how long do you think this will last with such low availability once Prius Owners understand their carpool access will be taken away and this is the only quick fill option on the market and currently the only vehicle that can be purchased new (besides the Tesla ($100k+) that currently qualifies for carpool access until 2015. Just a thought...really think the clock is ticking on this one.
Hope this helps,
Rick

 

Interesting, so are you filling it up solely at commercial CNG stations and have no filling solution? I'd be curious to hear if you encounter any stations that are too low pressure and thus VERY slow to fill.


To give you an idea of my situation, I work in Garden Grove where there are two filling stations and live in Seal Beach where Clean Energy is based and there is a filling station there. My parents who watch my kid is in Huntington Beach and there is a filling station two blocks from them so paying for a home filling station does not make sense for me. If I paid $8k I would be able to get the equivalent of $0.75 a gallon out of my garage instead of the $2 or so I pay now. Do not be confused between the home fill solution and the CNG filling stations. The home fill takes all night because the gas is not compressed but the commercial filling station is crazy fast. You pull up, attach nozzle, swipe credit card, lift lever, count to 5, shows % of fill at 100% on LED screen, remove nozzle, put nozzle back on reveiver and you are done.

I have encountered some pumps that only give me a 70% fill but now I know which ones those are and avoid them. Some pumps only fill to 3000psi where the Civic GX needs 3600psi to get a 100% fill so that might be another issue, but I have found 3600psi at all of the fill stations I have tried so far. You can use the 3000psi but will only get a 70-75% fill so it is not like you are completely out of luck if you are low on fuel. They even have iPhone apps on location and prices of fill stations which is great for longer road trips.

In regards to Pickens, it might seem like he is not making any progress because of the lack of mainstream personal CNG use, but look at Clean Energy press releases and you will see he is making a huge local impact converting FedEx/ UPS delivery truck fleets, airport vehicles, city buses, trash collectors, post office, etc. Most of these large organizations have private fill stations so when I go to any of the public ones I am lucky to see anyone else...but when I do, there is such a look of pride that they feel they are doing their part for the environment and elimination of foreign oil that they almost always want to spark up a conversation with you about how they feel this is such a cool thing most people don't know about.

Hope this helps with your questions...

 

What the equivalent Priuschat for Honda GX CNG cars forum?
What different maintenance do you need to do for the Honda GX versus conventional cars?
I am guessing the oil change is less frequent.
Is there a smog check?
The gas CNG cylinder needs to be inspected? How much for this inspection?
Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,
I know there is a forum at cngchat dot com. The maintenance is done at an authorized Honda Dealer with CNG certified technicians. The oil change is done when oil life % gets down to 10-15%, there is an LED display that shows current oil life at all times unlike the prius that just surprises you with the light that comes on. I am not sure if there is an exemption for the smog check but I do not think so. The CNG cylinder needs to be inspected every three years and with the 6 year 120,000 mile extended warranty you get two free inspections done at the dealer. I do not plan on holding on to this car past 6 years or 120,000 miles so I have not researched the costs for inspection but I know they do it at the dealer.
Hope this answers your questions.
Rick

 

What is the driving experience like of the Civic GX compared to a prius? road noise? basic handling? performance? power at speed? Did you look into the home fill option? I read below on this thread it costs 8K. I thought it was only 2K.

What kind of range do you actually get?

The Civic GX definately is a step down from the Prius, no doubt about it but this purchase was all about trade offs for me. The civic does not offer navigation or bluetooth, road noise is louder, basic handling is not much different and prius definately seems to power to speed better than the civic. The actual range is questionable as I tend to fill up at a quarter tank so I don't need to worry about it. I know I can get atleast 200 miles but just as the prius, it depends how you drive. The fill station is about $2k just to get it properly permitted and installed (not the cost of the unit). If you know of a way to add a NEW fill station for $2k please let me know.

Now for the advantages of the tradeoffs. The Civic GX can now be purchased for under $24k with 0% for 60 month financing with a $4k federal tax credit. White carpool stickers have already been extended to 2015. CNG is plentiful in the US and uses American workers to produce. Helping to eliminate the use of foreign oil. CNG fill stations are added everyday and they are easy to use and never a line. Not to mention 30%+ cheaper per gallon than gasoline.

This is definately not a great fit for everyone, but if there is someone out there who drives less than 100 miles a day in their commute and wants to retain their solo use of the carpool lane this could be the car for them.

The Leaf is scarry with only 100 mile range then a long time to charge. Civic GX may only have 200 mile range but takes less than a minute to fill at a fill station. The Volt is $41k list and I know there are tax credits but you are also paying $4k in tax not to mention no 0% financing on such a popular model and you are still using foreign oil and no guarantee they will allow into carpool lane. Plug in prius will be great and will be our 2nd car because of the range but I have little expectation of being able to drive solo in the carpool.

Hope this helps.
rick999

 

CNG filling up in the Silicon Valley area of California can take time if you get behind either a bus or garbage truck. I was with my friend who has a Honda Civic GX and we went to get CNG and it took about 15 minutes to wait for the bus to complete its fill.

It has been my experience that state and local gov'ts, post office, UPS / FedEx and other large fleet outfits have their own private fill stations. The public CNG stations in my experience have been completely empty. I have not had one incident yet where I had to wait but I only have experience in the Orange County and Los Angeles County area.

Rick999