Edmunds drives the 2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid; Has some interesting features

Seems to be accurate anyway judging from the estimated EPA numbers where it does a bit worse than the Ford Fusion Hybrid in the city but a bit better on the highway.

 

FAS stands for Forced Auto Stop. It's basically shutting the engine off in any vehicle (hybrid or non-hybrid) where it would usually be running and needlessly burning fuel.

 

Personally I think it's a mistake for Hyundai to not go with a CVT.

Sure to first time hybrid buyers or owners a traditional transmission is going to feel more familiar but familiarity with an automobile is quickly gained with ownership regardless of what transmission.

My understanding is that a CVT allows the engine to run at the most efficient RPM's the greatest amount of time. So personally? I want the CVT.

It feels like it is slipping? How subjective is that? It either IS slipping or NOT.

I think the decision to go with a conventional transmission reveals Hyundai's conservative approach to hybrids.

I'm interested in the Sonata Hybrid, and I wish it luck, but Hyundai might be making a mistake in trying to make too much of a Non-Hybrid, Hybrid. I think part of Toyota's success with The Prius has been the balancing of what to keep familiar and what to simply allow to be different, with an ultimate eye to what creates the best most efficient product. On my final point, my fear would be Hyundai is missing this point.

 

As normal, they are just trying to cut costs. Using the same transmission is much cheaper. Has nothing to do with benefits in economy or feeling or anything of the sort, it is cheaper. They are a cheap car company, and to make cheap cars, they make decisions to keep them cheap. Easy.

 

I think your characterization of Hyundai as a "cheap" car company is a little unfair. All car companies want to keep production costs down.

But to me? If you are going to the trouble of offering a Hybrid and it's your companies first hybrid offering, then going "cheap" on the transmission isn't a wise choice. I mean why brag about the new battery, the efficiency of the system but then stop short with something as vital to efficiency as the transmission? I agree that someone is probably looking at the bottom line.

It's just frustrating to me, because I want better products. So my first reaction is "How much better or more efficient could the Hyundai Sonata be if it had a CVT?"...we may never know.

I don't however call a car company cheap simply because they look at ways of balancing production costs...that's lifeblood to a automaker. The trick is knowing what to go cheap with, and what to NOT go cheap with, and I do fear perhaps Hyundai has errored.

How much more appealing would the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid be if it offered 5 gallons more per mile? I think if it did, it could really make Toyota and Honda sweat....and ultimately that's good for all supporters of Hybrid technology.

 

You can buy a brand new, never used Hyundai Accent base for $9,970USD. That is a very cheap car. I know Hyundai has been trying to improve their image from a Daewoo competitor to a Toyota/Honda competitor but they still have a long way to go. Quality has definately improved over the years, but still not where I'd like it or many that consider Honda/Toyota as their next car.

 

Hyundai isn't considered a luxury brand. And as a Korean automaker has had to build it's image up. But that's exactly where Honda and Toyota were 30 years ago.

Right now? Hyundai has a lot of positive buzz. Their small SUV's and Sonata have gotten pretty positive reviews.

Actually, I almost purchased a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. With the approaching 2010's a local dealer was selling them at a fantastic price. I admit to having a little "Non-Buyers Remorse". I ultimately did not purchase it, because it reminded me too much of the vehicle I was leaving, a 1993 Accord, and I kind of wanted a change. Plus I wanted better MPG's. But in test driving it very extensively I found it to be a very, very comfortable vehicle with fit and finish IMO equal to or surpassing similar Toyota or Honda offerings.

Maybe it's just your useage of the term cheap, which can mean "cheap" as in total cost, or "cheap" as in build quality.

Hyundai builds "cheaper" cars in price, but I think their fit and finish and overall quality has improved dramatically over the past decade. Only time reveals how a vehicle holds up or not, but the latest Hyundai products compete well against corresponding competitors products. And to make them all nervous, they usually can offer more amenities at a lower price.

That being said? I whimped out and bought The Honda...because my last one was running fantastically after 17 years on the road. So yeah, I'm a hypocrite.

 

The notion that using the same automatic transmission is cheaper and less complex is a hoax. See my previous post about the complexity pictures. Here is a price comparison of 2009 Prius hybrid transaxle vs. 2009 Matrix 1.8L automatic.

2009 Prius Hybrid Transaxle: $2,633.94 (includes MG1 and MG2 electric propulsion)

2009 Matrix Automatic Transaxle + Torque Converter: $2,600.03 ($2,013.32 + $596.71)

 

You obviously haven't driven any of their recent vehicles. They are very competitive and their market share growth shows it.

 

For users that want CVT there is the TCH and Fusion hybrid. CVTs are not magic. A six speed automatic can choose gears for economy or power. The sonata hybrid has higher efficiency than the TCH so you can't really argue the hyundai gives up efficiency for feel. Hyundai is not going to sell many cars if they just copy Toyota completely and ignore things that customers are demanding.

Not subjective at all. In my prius when revs go up speed does not go up proportionally, so when the ear and mind are used to fixed gears the cvt acts like you are slipping to the next highest one. So instead of holding third it is going to 3.1, 3.3, 3.7, etc. Some people like this as you don't get a jerk to the next step. I do not.

Their strategy makes it much easier to drop hybrids into other cars in the line and add engines. It also makes adding a hybrid less expensive as fewer new parts are needed. Toyota has taken a conservative approach to battery technology, sheet metal design, and suspension parts. In a slow economic market for cars I can't say some conservatism is a bad thing.

Hyundai doesn't have as deep pockets as toyota. They chose to not loose money for a number of years as an experiment. They also dropped the V6 from the sonata. There is an overall cost reduction on model line.

Hoax is a really loaded term. hyundai will not producing cars at the level of the prius. Hyundai does not have a torque converter so remove that from your calculation. Now add in R&D and manufacturing costs over the run. I suspect the difference would be multiple thousands of dollars per car, which is a bad thing when one goal is to be less expensive than the competition.

A psd is less mechanically complex, but as I mentioned before, hyundai for their other sonatas already is paying for the six speeds complexities.

 

Ok! It is official now. You like jerks.

Torque converter in their 6 speed auto will be replaced with 40kW electric motor so it will be more expensive. This further add to my point because HSD transaxle includes both MGs in the price.

I have no problem with existing non-hybrid complexity. I have an issue with Sonata hybrid because they are making it more complex than the non-hybrid. HSD simplified the mechanics compared to a non-hybrid.

 

I agree with this as well, however it should be their goal and I'm not convinced their approach is the best, time will tell.

 

some jerks

If hyundai had spent the money to go through two revisions of a eCVT I may agree with you. They also might have delayed the introduction do to transmission design problems. I do not know the costs. I would expect the HSD on the Lexus LS to be much more because of the low volumes.

 

You need to understand the sonata really competes with the TCH and FFH not the prius. The projected efficiency numbers have the Sonata getting higher mpg than the TCH with PSD. Ofcourse the lighter prius with a smaller engine and smaller body is going to beat the sonata in the city. I personally applaud hyundai for producing this car after such a late start. They will help reduce the added cost of a hybrid system.

Hybrids are only 2.6% of the market. GM and honda seemed to make bad trade offs. Hyundai really is targeting plug ins. Variety, especially when it does not add much to cost will help expand the market. BMW and Mercedes are also starting to take this approach with future tech.

 

Hyundai would also likely have to settle with patent troll Paice - which both Toyota and Ford have down. Not to mention any patent issues with the PSD with Toyota/Ford's patents.

There's a reason that only Toyota/Ford is using a PSD and everyone else is going with a more traditional transmission with motors sandwiched between the engine/transmission.

 

This makes me wonder what's left for Honda. They are suppose to be coming out with 2 MGs full hybrid for Acura.

 

Clutch plates, to burn up and wear out? Ew.