New to PriusChat, shopping for '04-05, any gotchas to look for?

Hi everyone ... new forum member here. Looking to replace my very expensive-to-run gas Jetta wagon (nearly $6k of maintenance over 2 years and 25k miles) with something that gets better mileage and still gives me hatchback versatility. Unfortunately there really aren't any vehicles comparable in cargo capacity to our Jetta that can match even its mediocre fuel economy, so we'll be downsizing. Tricky for this family of 3 humans plus large dog who do a lot of camping, but we'll manage. We do own both a roof-mounted cargo box and a hitch-mounted cargo tray, so worst case scenario is we bolt on one or the other of those when needed.

When I started shopping I was hoping to stay in the $5k-8k range. Other cars on the short list are the '04-05 Elantra GT hatchback and the '03-05 Matrix. But it looks like the dramatically lower fuel cost and somewhat lower maintenance cost of an early 2G Prius will make up for the higher price and give me similar overall ownership costs. So I will probably go for it. I'm seeing '04-05 Priuses generally listed in the $10-12k range with 70-110k miles on them. I'd pay no more than $11k (depending on miles and condition), and will probably take any color as long as the interior is gray cloth (I hate the bisque!) Not too particular about optional equipment: would very much like side airbags, but otherwise don't really care too much about bluetooth, Nav, HIDs, etc.

And as a hypermiler (very active cleanmpg member) I sure would like the mileage. I'm getting 32+ mpg in mostly urban/suburban driving in my 21/29mpg rated Jetta, and I've recently confirmed that I could get great numbers in a Prius. As a Zipcar member, I've recently taken both 2nd and 3rd gen Priuses out for 40-50 mile test drives to see how I could do. In both cases I did some local urban errands, followed by a freeway trip (includes a 700' climb and descent) to work, followed by a return trip (500' climb and descent) home on suburban surface arterials. This is a pretty good approximation of my normal driving mix. In the 2010 model, I was able to get 62mpg on the test drive, and in the 2nd gen model I was able to manage 67mpg (the higher latter figure probably due to better familiarity with the car). No crazy-advanced techniques, just basic common sense (for hypermilers) stuff: moderate but not granny-slow speeds, anticipating light timing, some pulsing/gliding and generally trying not to let the ICE run unless truly needed. Neither drive included long enough flattish freeway stretches to engage SHM or allow much DWL, but I'll take it for granted that roadtrip fuel economy will also be excellent. BTW, both test drives left the pack with a SoC fairly close to where I started, so no cheating by depleting the battery!

I can't say for sure that I'd get the same average in a Prius long-term, but I'm very confident that it will still be well over 50mpg.

By the way, our other car is a 2000 Golf TDI with 180k on the odometer which we expect to keep going past 280k. Just got back from a family camping trip in Idaho, averaging 54mpg over 1500 miles. BTW, except for long trips we burn nothing but biodiesel (100% in summer, 50% in winter) in this car, locally sourced from a supplier that uses mostly recycled cooking oil, so its environmental cred is pretty strong. I know there's lots of hybrid-versus-diesel sentiment on the web, but personally I'll be thrilled to own one of each.

So ... after that very long introduction, here's a question: when shopping for a 2004 or 2005 Prius, are there any telltale signs of trouble that I need to look for? Of course Priuses are about the most reliable vehicles on the road, but I know eCVT or traction battery problems (however rare) can occur and can be very expensive. Other than low indicated fuel economy or general odd behavior I haven't noticed in other Priuses, are there any specific warning signs that I should be checking for on a test drive?

 

Those '06 changes sound pretty evolutionary, but I'll watch for the bad MFD. Is it usually obvious, or an intermittent problem that I might not see on a test drive? Also, what is the advantage of the hi-res MFD? The gen2 that I drove the other day didn't have the backup camera but the display was more than easy enough to read. Fortunately I don't mind saving money on an '04 and am MORE than comfortable with buying used and with the risks and increased maintenance that entails. After all, I own two VWs (and have also taken several Honda and Subaru vehicles well past the 150k mark). I guess to some folks a 7 year old car with nearly 100k on it seems scary, but to me that's "barely broken in!"

I will of course have any car I'm serious about inspected by a good mechanic (fortunately in Portland - with maybe the greatest Prius density on earth - there are Prius techs who don't work for the stealers), and I never go near salvage titles. Richard ... would the additional $5k in hidden maintenance that you cite typically be more due to the usual deferred-maintenance suspects (shocks, brakes, CV boots, tires, t-belts, water pumps, o2 sensors, radiators, heater cores, steering racks, 12V battery, etc.), or Prius-specific problems (eCVT, trac batt, inverter)?

Also, about the only black mark on Consumer Reports' reliability ratings for the Prius is the audio system on the '04s. Any idea what the problems were?

 

Yes, the hyperactive TC concerns me. I've heard horror stories, and it could affect me. We don't get snow regularly in Portland, but we have very few plows so when it does snow you have to deal with a lot of deep snow on unplowed streets. I also do quite a bit of hiking and mountain biking, which can involve drives up rough gravel or dirt roads where an overactive TC could cause problems.

That said, when I was in northern Minnesota this winter, I drove my grandfather's '04 Prius on the icy streets of Duluth and it didn't seem awful to me. I deliberately drove down side streets covered in wet ice. The tires on his car didn't have overall grip as good as those on my rental car, but it seemed like the TC was pretty good at cutting back the power to avoid wheelspin, yet still sent enough power to move the car. That said, I was doing this under a very specific set of circumstances, and it's possible that under other circumstances the TC would get me stuck. It does make me a little nervous.

When did they make the change to "lighten up" the TC? Was it at the beginning of MY2006?

 

Wow, I had no idea the MFD could cost so much to replace. $3k-5k?! Wow. I'd expect to pay that for a new eCVT or battery pack, but not for a freakin' screen! That makes my Jetta's recent $1100 brain replacement, or the problem with 5sp MTs on early Matrixes (which I've also been considering) blowing up, seem tame in comparison. You'd think Toyota would prioritize their reputation for reliability over gouging people on replacement parts, but they do seem to have a pattern of this kind of behavior.

Good to at least know there's a $500-ish repair option out there.

That, and the 2006 TC improvements, have got me thinking about holding out for an '06 after all. Now I'm thinking about keeping the Jetta running for another year (I'm not driving it much these days, so that shouldn't cost me a fortune) and waiting for the prices on '06s to drop a bit more. Got some thinking to do. Thanks everyone for the extremely informative advice!