Mosque at Ground Zero?

How soon we forget. Britain suffered for nearly 3 decades terrorist attacks by the Northern Irish.

We would do well to study how that awful period was finally brought to resolve.

 

was oklahoma the work of Christian terrorists bent on wiping out anyone who doesn't agree with them? and how many of those churches were built within a few blocks of the bombing after it happened? and how many families of the killed and injured asked that they not be built?

 

i'm fine with people believing in a religion but stop at the "wrongs" they are teaching.

a religion that teaches their followers that the their religion is the only one and those that don't believe in it basically "don't have the right to exist" does not have room in this overcrowded world.

i wouldn't be a bigot if i took a 2,000 people over 20 years, taught 1,000 to "love thy neighbor" and the other 1,000 to "hate thy neighbor" and expect a greater percentage of "hate thy neighbor" group to cause acts of crime against others.



this is the biggest problem i have with small portion of Islam, mostly fundamentalists, which is there propensity to display this distructive nature through agressive acts of killing others.

 

So because there are fanatics that use Islam as a way to control followers, we should ban the construction of a Mosque two blocks away from Ground zero?
How far away until we allow this? 3 blocks? 2 miles?
Why shouldn't we also ban other religious buildings in which the religion is used by fanatics to incite violence?

 

100% for that. There wouldn't be any left, and perhaps society would be able to progress...

 

i want a pork store on the other side just to see if they'll complain

 

I love it when they say "so close to ground zero", when that's clearly a nice way of saying "anywhere in the Western Hemisphere."

 

Don't get me wrong. I think it is foolish to build the Mosque that close. I also think it is unnecessarily confrontational, just as the gay bar will be.
However, I do feel strongly that both are protected by the freedoms the USA is founded on. To deny the right to build the Mosque is to destroy the very rights the terrorists are trying to destroy.

 

I find this total lack of sensitivity odd. Islam is an awfully sensitive religion. I use the word "awfully" because almost to a man the entire Muslim world cannot countenance a trace of criticism. It flies into a holy rage over any caricature of their “prophet”. Deaths have result because of false rumors spread over insensitively to Muhammed or Islam in general. The West is lectured constantly about the need to be sensitive, in spite of the fact that Western societies have bent over backwards to show ‘tolerance’ and sensitivity to our psychologically fragile Muslim guests.

Our sensitivity towards Islam since 9/11 has resulted in Ramadan in the White House, foot baths in airports, special meal breaks for meat packing Somali’s in the Midwest and even the incorporation of Sharia Law within the legal systems of some nations. Yet none are reciprocal as is evidenced by the planned dedication date of 9/11 and the complete ban upon other religions within Muslim states.

Islam is not just a "religion" and it contains few if any true moderates, even the cry “Alla Akbar” does not mean as many suppose ,”Allah is great”, but “Allah is greater.” Nope Islam is a "militant ideology" that is incorporated within a "political system" transforming a "faith" into a totalitarian ruling system. Which creates adherents with such fervor as to strap bombs upon their person, or fly airplanes into buildings and blow up innocent men, women and children as well as their very own. To what end? The approval of their "God" or patriotically for the benefit of their nation? Nope it's for the propping up of a "ruling class" of the rich, of politicians and Imams plain and simple.

Am I "Islamphobic" perhaps but I just can't see many New York Unionized construction companies stepping forward on this job. I think it prudent to take a "Wait and see" attitude as long as the wait isn't to long and a "Trust but verify" stance with anything to do with Islam or this "Culture Center."

 

agreed, and i don't think anyone here is suggesting that.

 

well said.

 

The worst people are the whites. They have done most of the racist hate crimes in the last 300 years.

The problem with generalizations - that is based on religion, color of skin, language, place of birth - is that, it leads to things like Nazi genocide, Rwandan Genocide etc.

They all start the same way - blaming a large number of innocent people for crimes committed by others. Judging a person by who he is - is the basis of liberty in the US.

What you are asking is no different from Osama Bin Laden. He wants western people ("infedles") to get out of Saudi Arabia which to him is the "holy land" - since it hurts feelings and sentiments of people who live there.

 

Thanks for this. All the closet bigots have come out ...

 

This is again a generalization that is "stupid". They are no less or more kind than others. Mulsims are as varied as any other religious group.

But the fact is it doesn't matter. Constitution doesn't gaurantee religious freedom only to "kind people" or the "non-crazy". They have as much right to build a mosque where a church might be allowed - or in this case a community center - as Tea Party people have to build a center near Oklahoma bombing site.

 

Yes they are varied, but my comment was more so on the pressuring of usually Christians to join their religion. Like Jehova Witnesses or Mormons who go door to door trying to convert people, that is what I was trying to get at. Wheras no muslim friend of mine has ever tried to covert me to Islam. They all accept me, and are fine with it. I can't count the number of times I have been invited to church, invited to bible study, invited to prayer groups... The number of times they "will pray for me" because I am a heathen. Good people, but very pushy religiously.

It is definately a sweeping generalization, but I find it holds true in many cases.

 

Religions, Believes and Faiths. By definition they mean to accept some "stories" without any doubt, without any requirement of reasoning and proofs. Such good tools for the ruling power to control the dumb & dumbers throughout the whole history of human kind, of all countries and races.

You may laugh at the Scientologists who believe the stories of a failed science fiction writer. Have you ever wonder how many stories in the Bible or the Koran were just stories too?

Today the vallains may be fundamantalist Muslims, but it was the Crusading Chistians in the medieval times, and the Japanese emporer worshippers who believe he was the son of god during WWII. Even Hitler claimed to be Christian!

Imagine! Let's pray to John Lennon.

 

We are very fortunate to live in a country that allows freedom of religion. Try to go to a Muslim-ruled country and open a religious building other than Muslim and see what happens. Do you think they will open their arms to you the way we do to them?

Family members are ostracized (sp?) or stoned to death for converting to a non-Muslim religion.

Yet we are having the freedom to debate this controversial issue of opening a Muslim center near Ground Zero.

 

That is by far one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Propogated by hatred, ignorance, and Fox News.

Would you not consider Iran a very Islamic country? As of the 1979 revolution, its legal system is heavily based on Sharia Law (Islamic Law based of off the Koran). However, there are over 600 Christian churches in Iran. Even Ahmadinejad has no problem with others freely practicing their faith. You will obviously never be elected PM over there, but same as how with all this bigotry on here I doubt any other than christian could be elected in the US.

Ahmadinejad: Religious minorities live freely in Iran

As for being stoned to death from converting out of Islam, that is based in truth, yet is not. It is as true as Christians killing those that convert out. Key important difference:

As far as I know, the Koran itself never says to kill someone because of Apostasy. Extremists have added this into Sharia law, but it is NOT based on the Koran.

However, the bible explicitly states killing anyone who does not believe in "god", but not only that, also kill anyone who tries to convert you to something else, and even their entire village/city... That is just plain violent.

The majority of Islamic leaders agree that there is no penalty for exiting the religion. However exiting and talking smack about it, is considered treason in lots of places, which then has a penalty. Again neither penalty is carried out often, and usually when it is, there is a huge hullabaloo and arguing.

Oh, you might want to read that christian fairy tale of yours, specifically here if you don't believe me: (The underlined portions highlight what is above)

Deuteronomy
Chapter 13
KJV

1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.


You really need to do your own research before sprouting off half-truths and blatent lies. It seems as if one person says something, then it is repeated over and over as fact with nobody bothering to research it.

And FYI, the freedom speech in the US is not unique. Other countries have had it longer and allow it even more so.

 

Hum. Last time I looked, some of your coins say: "In God We Trust". Maybe its just me and you don't mix the church and the state, juste church and capitalism/money.