Mosque at Ground Zero?

Yes,,, but I still love him.

Hey did you hear that they are moving to strike the word retarded? No longer PC.

 

First off, I said 'acting like a racist bigot'.

And second, I was clear as to why I made that statement. Assuming that the group has 'bad intentions' is prejudice. It's really that simple.

 

thank you, that's my point.

i would rather see an intelligent answer in this multi-faceted, very emotional thread than see members being "attacked" outright. "attacks" only polarize people instead of logically convincing them that there is a better way of coming to a conclusion to this subject.

for this subject the building is not the object peoples fears it's the religion. so ask yourselves, why do people fear this religion so much?

to me this was the best youtube post(98) for the subject of Islam. to me it was worth watching.

http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house-pancakes/83497-mosque-ground-zero-10.html#post1167709

it doesn't feel good to be called out does it?

it also doesn't feel good to be called racist bigot either.

 

Then don't act like one. Pretty simple, imo.

ETA: We had 13 pages of discussion, and GC still assumed that the group was building "out of badness". That was what prompted the comment, that someone could still assume bad intent after all the facts and discussion that were on the thread (and at the same time fail to realize how prejudicial that opinion is). Note that I did not "attack" him based on what he said in post #1, but post #124 (even though both posts convey roughly the same opinion).

 

er, i'm not sure how many 'facts' have been discussed here, i think they are all opinions, either the posters, or those of the sources they quote.

 

did you view the youtube video in post 98 yet?

it says thats it's "ok" to lie if it "promotes" the spread of Islam.

one could conclude that these people call it a center now but are in fact lying and will turn it into a mosque later on. so i think he has a valid point.



you're not the only person to call someone a bigot in the "cultural center" discussion. in another car forum others are doing the same and it's counter productive there also. i would rather have more facts and knowledge from any member than the name calling. informing us is your best tool. don't ya think?

 

One could conclude that, sure, but imo to conclude something like that about a large group of people, based on the statement of one youtube video, is horribly bigoted. (And the issue that most people have is not "cultural center" vs. "mosque")

There are plenty of facts that have been discussed here. Like how the group has absolutely no relation, affiliation, or anything to do with any terror attacks in any part of the world.

 

Knowing quite a few Scots and being part Scot myself, it's more likely someone told the Scots they shouldn't release the bomber, so naturally they did release the bomber to show the world they weren't going to be pushed around.

Had the English or Americans told the Scots to release the bomber, he would still be in jail.:rockon:

 

as far as Muslims go. i believe the vast majority are good and want to live a good life but, i don't trust the Muslim extremists. they are the ones, i believe, that are most likely to be underhanded, lier's, and/or terrorists. how can you tell the bad ones from the good ones, you can't and there's the problem. they don't have a stamp on their forehead so we can weed them out and if you can't find the bad ones people are going to, unfortunately, fear them all. people will think "why should we trust a group that kills their own and is out to get us also?" beside Oklahoma city, Muslims (correct me if I'm wrong), are the only ones more likely to die for a religion by strapping on a bomb belt and killing as many as they can. look at the news. Al Qaeda claims the 57 killed in Baghdad. Not the molesting Christian priests

 

Well.. Thanks for being honest, I suppose.

 

So you are not going to meet the challenge and tell me what multiple source you get your info from?

 

Let it go, Icarus, he already ceded your point, and graciously.

 

I'm sorry, but one can't get let off that easily. You can't throw out a statement like his in post # 134 "At least I have more than one source." (For information) and not back it up when called to do so!

Not to mention post #130!

What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander!

 

now you're talking! i'll have guiness, as long as those who wish we wern't on this site and probably wish we were driving suv's so they could be even more mad at us are willing to join us!

 

Everything is better over a few beers.

Tom

 

This New Yorker totally believes that the cultural center should be build where the old Burlington coat factory. While I am one of those liberal New Yorkers, and I don't listen to NPR much rather the Doors or Pink Floyd myself :rockon:. I was digging at the WTC on 9/12 and 9/13 as an EMS responder and still suffer flashbacks from time to time so this is a real issue to me. This may have been posted already and if it was sorry for repeating it, but Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf was actually an advisor to President Bush so not sure just how radical this man should be considered.

Oh and I agree with GC, this needs to be discussed over a few beers. Please lock all firearms, guns and booze bad combo, in your cars and head up to my place for conversation street parkings not too bad. I'm gonna tap a couple kegs.

 

Google "Irish Republican Army" sometime.

Also, click on this link and scroll to page 13.

You're right, most terrorists ARE Muslims (if you consider 0.2% to be "most").

OK, admittedly in 2007 45% of the terrorist attacks in Europe were by Islamists, but that's still less than the 48% done by various separatist movements.

What about 2008? of the 515 terrorist attacks in Europe, zero were by Islamists. None. Zilch. Nada.

"OK, that's Europe," I can hear someone saying. What about in the U.S.A.?

According to the FBI, an organization called the Jewish Defense League between 1981 and 1985 bombed a few places and killed and injured a few people. Never heard about THAT in your mainstream media, did you?

Add up those numbers at the very end, whip out Excel, and what do you get?

The number of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil done by Muslims from 1980 to 2005? 4%. That's four, not forty.

"OK, a lot of that is things like arson or vandalism," I hear the man made of straw over there saying. "What about where people were actually killed?"

I'm glad you asked. Because while I had Excel out, I calculated that very figure: 23% were by Islamic radicals. 27% were by Puerto Rican liberation groups. 27 is a bigger number than 23. 77% (ie, the number made by non-Muslims) is a MUCH bigger number than 23.

Conclusion: Not only are not all terrorists Muslims; you can't even say most terrorists are Muslims.