Peugeot launches 3008 HYBRID4: diesel hybrid crossover

Would it be bennificial to the Prius if a 3rd MG is powering the rear axle making it full-time 4-wheel drive? I'd imagine that the cost of doing this would be incrementally small?

4 wheel drive Prius VI?

 

I would think it would be very beneficial on a phv prius. It would allow less losses at high speed in ev mode because you wouldn't be spinning mg1 and the engine. It would also allow for more power coming to the batteries in braking. So more efficient and 4wd traction for very little parts cost or weight, even mg2 might be the same motor. There would be research and development costs.

 

Lexus RX450h has MG3 in the rear. The AWD version has $1,590 premium over the FWD but that includes roof rails.

Highlander hybrid AWD also has MG3.

 

I'm almost sure MG1 runs very quickly but engine (ICE) not, when in EV mode (up to 100km/h or 62MPH PHV, while 75km/h or 46MPH 3Gen). The losses then would be pretty similar to one MG alone, only a matter of gearing.
I believe our MG1+MG2 can give 80hp (60kw), much more powerful than the 3008 one, so that is the value they can give in regeneration. The actual limits are max current of NiMH - which can be well exceeded when Li-Ion is used...


I would stick with Prius as it is. With Li-Ion if proven...

 

Oh you mean simply install another MG2 in the rear? No need to develop another totally different MG. Almost double the HP, too.

Prius VI 4-wheel drive Sports edition, Cool!

Umm, I don't think I (and I imagine, a lot of other people) can afford the PHEV yet. Just double the capacity of the battery for us lesser peasants, please

 

These DPFs have been out for years, and a reason why newer VWs don't have the smoke. As far as I know, it's the only type available in the US. Concerns have been raised that the finer particles produced during the filter's regen are worse for health than the visible stuff that is filtered out. Then again, there isn't much concern for the same size particles coming out of a petro tailpipe.

The replacable filter approach may have its drawbacks depending on new filter cost and easy of access, but it is better for public health. It isn't used in the US because CARB requires all emissions equipment to be non-maintance items.

 

It explicitly states in the OP linked press release that the vehicle comes with a particulate filter (FAP):

Smoke/PM emissions should be a non-issue with this vehicle.

 

Yes, zero particulate emissions from the Prius tailpipe, as well as many other petrol engines. Pre-mix flame, no droplets.

 

My previous post was intended to show some cons of "dieselization".
The pros are indeed far too small...and here in Europe only the price (also MPG, because is relat€d, and petrol are less eficient) has made up this movement towards diesel.

Regarding latest models FAP equipped, as this 3008 seem to be, I must stay with GrumppyCabbie, many have proven low reliability, and higher costs.

And for start-stop in a diesel, some auto journalists say the manufacturers are doing very well in installing a "shut" button. When depressed, changes to normal idling car. They call it the "magic button"...I wonder why...
http://aeiou.expresso.pt/gen.pl?mode=thread&fokey=ex.stories/600768&va=3349401&p=stories&op=view#3349401
(even in Portuguese, although translation is possible, we can read it has come to the title of the article...)

 

How many diesels have you driven with an IMA or HSD-like stop start system? Conventional starter motors, gasoline or diesel, do cause vibration when cranking. But with a high power MG, it is much smoother and near instantaneous. There is no reason why this couldn't be applied to diesels as well.

 

Funny how two European members aren't diesel fans. There are many good diesel cars and they are good in certain circumstances such as long motorway/highway journeys, but there are many disadvantages too.

The idea of a simple diesel engine no longer applies. They are now much more complicated than comparable petrol engines now they have been saddled with necessary emissions control equiptment. The parts, should/when they go wrong are much more expensive and probably not far off hybrids costings. DPFs, high pressure diesel pumps, dual mass fly wheels etc.

I'm not disrespecting anyone who has a diesel, but (always a but eh?) they're getting way too complicated now. Hybrids are actually quite simple in comparison but not when mated to a diesel engine - that's just asking for trouble.

p.s. I've owned and driven many diesel cars. The best were the VW Golf/Boro and the Audi A4 1.9 tdi. The rest are glorified tractors

 

Gasoline engines do produce particulates. It's how the inside of the tailpipe gets black. They are smaller than those from an unfiltered diesel, but they may be worse for public health because they can get deeper into the lungs.

I'm sure they produce less than a diesel, and likely less than a diesel engine on biodiesel. Natural gas fueled engines also produce less than a gasoline fueled one.

 

Well, Prius datasheet claims zero PM.
And I must agree with Toyota: the black inside the tailpipe we see is from unburned-Hydrocarbons, mostly or 99% coming from crankcase vapours. The 1% is coming from the quench zone very near the cylinder walls, not reached by the flame due to proximity factor/temperature. These unb-HC have downstream reactions in the catalytic pot, turning to coarse particles that stick in the pipe because of great water content of exhaust gas. Not even near the amount generated by the diesel engine (which has this fenomena added to regular combustion process fine droplets).

Particulate Matter/soot is most carbon aggregates (they have burned), which is much different and pointed as being the most agressive long-term pollutant - coming (almost) exclusively from Diesel engines.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soot]Soot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Even with DPF, a diesel smoke has PM (can it remove all in the size spectrum? [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter]Diesel particulate filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] says no, but more than 85% is expected), while our Prius doesn't.

 

I've never driven any, IMA/HSD or conventional started SSSystem (the first are not available after all). But regarding low rpm vibrations that are undeniabely felt when approaching a roundabout, or idling, or even in coasting...I would confess that was the "feeling" that kept me away (totally) from considering a diesel car, when I was looking for one (Feb this year, then I choose Prius). If I had to choose a car for many years, it would not have comfort issues like that. Typical NIMBY: "not in my back yard".

Nevertheless I agree with you: it has a reason to be applied, and can be applied to diesels for sure. But simple law of Physics: can't crank instantaneously, because of heavy parts...Petrol engine is so much quicker and smooth...

 

True, diesels are heavier. But there are V6 and V8 HSD setups and they still start very smoothly and quickly. If big and heavy engines like that can be started smoothly, then I think the same can be done with diesels.

 

Have to make a correction to my post quoted above.
In fact the HC from oil vapours do burn inside combustion chamber, because they are sent to inlet manifold. If not negligible, bear in mind that it represents oil consumption rates, recognized as being very very low in our Priuses, perhaps much under 500ml (pint) in 10k.
Please accept apologies for the miss.

 

What Is a Urea Tank? | eHow.com

What Is Urea Injection? | eHow.com

 

Are you European members aware that the EU will set a particle number emission limit for petrol vehicles in 2014? According to CARB, if the limit is set the same as it currently is for diesel vehicles (6X10**11 km-1), it will require particle filters on petrol vehicles as well (not sure about hybrids). This is especially true of SIDI which all car manufactures are pursuing because of their increased efficiency. SIDI engines have been shown to approach particle numbers typical of uncontrolled (unfiltered) diesels.

The efficacy of DPF does not appear to be an issue based on many studies. It is effective across the entire particle size range. CARB did a study on a Peugeot ("Golden Vehicle") in which the particle number emissions were indistinguishable from filtered dilution tunnel air for most of the emissions test.

 

Did not know about new regulations over PM emissions to be set up soon extended to petrol. SI Direct Injection may in fact be a source of particulate, never put a thought on that.

 

A motor should be able to smooth out a diesel and make it start and stop easier because it does not need to idle and can start at a higher speed. The choice of motor at only 8kw looks too small for the application. It does not solve the NOx portion of the diesel equation and urea injection is likely to be needed in countries that that regulate this. VW has been able to make some of their diesels clean enough without urea.

What is the SI part of DI, I'm unfamiliar with that abbreviation. Particulates increase when engines are cooler and size is smaller which is made possible by the di and turbocharging technology. It should be less than with diesels, but along with the DI turbo and EGR tech these new engines may have to embrace a particulate filter along with the other diesel tech.