Nissan Releases New Fuga Hybrid (Infiniti M35h)

Dual Clutch? What's wrong with the good ol fashion HSD?

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Patents. Come on man....

On an alternate topic, these Fugas look fantastic VIPed out.

 

Well Nissan claims their system is much cheaper to build and more efficient than the more complicated GS 450h. I'm glad there is finally another competitor to the GSh and I am going to check this out.

Shame they ripped off the "h" from Lexus to name their car though.

 

How is it compared to GS450h in term of power and fuel efficiency (under the same testing procedure)?

 

From my understanding the M35 should have around 370hp to the GSh 340hp. The M35 should get about 28 MPG to the GSh 23 MPG (EPA). These are estimates.

2012 Infiniti M35 Hybrid First Drive - Motor Trend

 

302hp ICE + 67hp MG. I don't think the MG power will peak at the same rpm as the ICE. It is unlikely. I can't find the combined power.

It seems to be a great competitor.

 

For Nissan this should be lighter, less expensive to manufacture so likely less expensive than the GS hsd, the smaller change should retain feel without major redesign so easier upsell to hybrid.

But probably most of all it is a much cleaner sell than saying its got the drivetrain of the GS that we are copying and it is just a little less refined and more expensive. If you look at the next class up mercedes is selling 10% of their S class as a hybrid with similar drivetrain, the Lexus LS is selling less than 10 a month hybrids in America. Not that Lexus can't fix some things with hsd for luxury cars, but it is not as simple as dropping a drive train in the thing.

 

Dual clutch hybrids seem to be the way everyone is going except for Toyota/Ford.

They should perform very well and if they can do it for a bit less money, even better. They might even be able to apply the money saved towards upgrading the hybrid components to make up for the deficiencies of such a design.

Interesting that in the MT article they say that Nissan claims that their system is more efficient than HSD - I think that in certain steady state conditions it very well could be, but I think the HSD will still win in variable speed driving.

 

Yeah but not a fair comparision. The S 400 hybrid is a V-6 hybrid tuned for more MPG. The LS 600h L is a range topping V-8, AWD hybrid that was the brand halo until the LFA and sold very well initially.

I wish Lexus would offer more than one hybrid powertrain. For example selling a LS 450h and a LS 600h L.

 

That's short-term thinking isn't it? Given the same volume for production, HSD would be less expensive.

 

and clutches imply some sort of friction surfaces that will wear out eventually...

if I understand HSD correctly, it will last as long as the gears last, effectively forever.

 

I expect this to be low volume. I doubt they make 100 GS hybrids a month. This shares most parts with other infinities. The same engine tuning would be needed for either. This way they add 1 motor, 2 clutches, plus control circuitry. With a HSD they add 2 motors, full hsd transmission gearing, more control circuitry and more software. According to Nissan the system also weighs less than the system in the GS and required less brake tuning. Add in costs for engineering over the life of the car and payments of royalties to toyota and yes it should be much less expensive. What kind of short sighted company would simply pay a competitor for a system that is not selling well?

Not forever but it should last a very long time. The electronically controlled clutches on a sequential shift transmission should last a couple of hundred thousand miles. Its a difference but not one that buyers will really care much about.

We should know more about the US version soon.

 

They sell less than 10 a month in the LS h in america. It isn't a fair comparison, but buyers have spoken. They expect to give up a little power in return for milage. Lexus did not compromise to power, but seemed to compromise the driving feel, and the efficiency. I think in the M and G segments 6.1 seconds to 60 is fast enough, the hybrid buyers will value handling and fuel economy more in their hybrid than fast sprints.

 

I was thinking the volume would rise if they trickle down the technology to other Infiniti models and Nissan high volume cars. It seems they are playing it safe. If it works as good as HSD in term of power, efficiency and emission, that's all that matters.

 

Clutch wearing out process may result in difference in performance as well. For example, gas engine engaging / disengaging may become more noticeable.

The automatic transmission gear shifting may not be as smooth or as fast.

All those issues do not exist in HSD or LHD (Lexus Hybrid Drive).

 

I sure hope so. This is great that Nissan is expanding their hybrid line up.

And by the way, to those that are knocking the dual clutch system ... if everybody used HSD, there would be no competition, and in the absence of competing technologies, innovation and progress slow down significantly. I am glad to see competing technologies, and I hope it spurs a race to innovate and improve. It would be absolutely excellent if this design beat the HSD, and then Toyota launched a counter strike, beating Nissan, and back and forth and back and forth ... and turn into an all out race to constantly provide greater efficiency.

 

I expect if they price it right it will move down, and the G is the next obvious place. The nice thing about the dual clutch system is that you can move it over easily and use it on lots of engine choices. They are definitely playing this part safe. But Nissan has the riskiest green policy out their with the high volume projections for the leaf and building their own batteries. If BEVs don't sell they have made a huge bet in the wrong direction. If BEVs do sell competitors like Toyota, Ford, and Hyundai may be able to get models out that are better than the leaf. I don't think Nissan can afford to bet big in BEVs and try to bet big on HV. That is probably why they licensed the camry psd in the altima.

On the flip side on lower power applications I don't think anyone has come up with anything better than the hsd. Mazda is already licensing it, and mercedes wants to in a future vehicle.