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How Do You Get An EV Charging Station?

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by kenmce, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    What's the deal on setting up an electric charging station? I'm not buying an EV, not soon, but maybe I could help make them usable. Anybody know?
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Call up any of the companies that are selling U.L. approved EVSE's. In essence, they're a plug that delivers 240AC power. Blink (Blink | Home) is one company making charger plugs ... clippercreek (http://www.clippercreek.com/) is another ... aerovironment still another (though they're not selling to the public yet). Cough up a couple thousand and in a few days, they can bring one out ... wire it into an existing panel on a 40 amp breaker and you're good to go (after you pay even more for getting it wired in ... all presuming your present service panel can handle the load ... otherwise you have to do an upgrade. The aerovironment model costs less ... but they make it up on the install. That'd be mighty generous of you too!
     
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I'm not sure how much a public Level 2 charging station would really help. A full charge (in the case of a Nissan leaf) takes about 8 hours. If it's installed walking distance from a shopping center, it might help for someone to get an opportunity charge while shopping, but the catch with a single charging station is that nobody could count on it because someone else might already be there, unless you operate a reservation system.

    On the other hand, if you have friends who live 75 miles from you and who will have EVs, and if you live somewhere they want to go, it might be useful for them if they could spend the night at your home. They live in City A, 75 miles from you and want to spend a day and a night in your city. They drive the 75 miles, do their business, then park at your house overnight for a charge, so they can drive home the next day (or later).

    Otherwise, I don't think that installing a Level 2 charging station at your home would help much. Note that if they buy a portable EVSE, they could already charge at any RV park that will allow it.

    A Level 3 charging station is a bit different, since it takes much less time. But installing it would cost a LOT more money. The charger itself might cost 20 to 50 times more than a Level 2 charger, and it requires 440-volt three-phase power and higher amperage than your home is likely to have. If you own a retail business, installing a Level 3 charger might make sense, at least from the point of view of making EVs a little more practical.

    The Leaf will have the ability to plug into any standard electrical outlet for a slow charge in an emergency, or for people who do not need a faster charge at home. Nissan does not recommend doing this regularly, but they do not say what is wrong with it: whether the cord is too lightweight to stand up to regular usage, or whether they just don't feel consumers are smart enough to live with slow charging.
     
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Again I think it generous and/or forward thinking of you.

    How you can help depends on your circumstances. Do you own a company or are influential in your town or city? If you own your own company then there's lots you could do to helping the EV cause and it would be great advertising too. Otherwise you could work with the city council to look at the introduction of EV parking bays in useful areas and if you're erm, financially comfortable (rich), you could offer them as a gift to your town. The town could balance this gift by purchasing an EV or two for city use vehicles - parking enforcement and the like?

    I guess it all depends on your circumstances.
     
  5. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    The publicity angle strikes me as the best approach. It would be simple to get a pair of 240 volt outlets out in the parking lot. Three phase would cost ~ $ 4,000 (US) (~ £ 2,500) to bring in from the street, which is a bit much for what may end up as a publicity gimmick.

    I can't quite tell if all these various different cars use identical plugs, or if each has its own system. Are they all alike? Wouldn't it be simpler to just put an ordinary 240 V outlet out there, the same one appliances use, skip these station things?

    Electricity is around .13 cents/kwh here. How much does it take to fill a car?
     
  6. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    All Level I chargers are 110 volt, the plug is standardized, the controller is often in the car.

    All Level II chargers are 220 volt, the plug is standardized and the external controller has to watch battery voltage, current flow and battery temperature. Optionally it may also delay charging until the utility has spare capacity and text or email drivers that their car is ready, so the next driver can charge.

    Level III chargers are 440v but the plug is not yet a standard. (Level III charging is an option on the Leaf, in part because the standards are not set yet)

    Not carrying the charger electronics, lightens the car. Appliances plugs were not really designed to be plugged in in rain and snow. No one wants to be the first deceased electric car owner.
     
  7. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    My understanding is that EV connections currently are not standard. A standard has been approved & accepted for new production vehicles (Leaf, Volt, Tesla Model S). This week a charging station on Columbus Ave in Philadelphia goes live.
     
  8. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Some background:

    A few years back I was looking at low emission cars and found out that Honda had a natural gas vehicle, the Civic GX. It seemed like a good car, solid company, affordable price. Then I looked at places where I could refuel it while I was on the road. There weren't any. I could buy the car, but I could never go more than a few counties away from home. I bought a Prius instead, now I can drive anywhere in North America, no problem.

    Move forwards to today and the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf are due out any day now. I googled for recharging stations. There is only one public recharging station within a hundred miles of me and they request that you call ahead to see if they're open.

    If I was buying a car this year, I would hesitate to get an electric, because every 100 (?) miles or so I would have to stop, scrounge a 110 Volt outlet, and recharge overnight. It would take three weeks to drive to California. Obviously not very appealing.

    I visited the GE Wattstation site. It's colorful, positive, and doesn't say that much about the actual Wattstation. They want you to write for information. I wrote.

    I got the WattStation mailing. It has one page about the Wattstation. The other twenty pages are information about wet and dry transformers, switchgear, panelboards, and etcetera. This is interesting but I am not going to rewire my entire property so people can charge their cars here. Right now there is a total of one known electric car in my entire county and the owner charges it at home every night. It would appear that GEs interest is mainly in selling electrical support equipment.

    The green (Wattstation) GE Fact Sheet is full of exciting sales talk -Vehicles of tomorrow", "Renowned industrial designer", smart this and integrated that, but it is a little light on facts. It doesn't say:

    * Are these devices in production yet? Can I actually buy one?

    * How much does one of these things cost?

    * How many amps does it draw?

    * How much space does it need?

    * How much can it be out in the weather?

    * How long does it take an electrician who has never seen one of these to install it?

    * Does the unit come with a guarantee? If so, what? If it breaks who can fix it?

    * The unit seems to talk to other machines. Does it need a phone line? Cable? FIOS? Am I required to sign up with a credit card processing company?

    * I don't sell electricity, and I don't really want to. I live in one of the nanny states and I don't want to find out what the state would require of me if I became a utility company. ( Not joking. They would do this. ) Can I set it to be free? How about coin operated?

    * How much does it cost to top up a volt or a leaf?

    The mailing has a cover sheet from some guy Cris Lepp who is the "GE EV Infrastructure Sales Manager". I email him. His email bounces. I call him on the phone. A machine answers, my call is important to them, but no actual human is willing to speak to me.


    I give up.


    Electric cars are not realistic at this time. I am so not selling the Prius. :mad:
     
  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Electric cars ARE realistic NOW. However, they are not YET realistic as your ONLY car.

    If you are a single person with only one car, or if you are a one-car family, an EV imposes limits that most people are unwilling to accept. Even Darell does not have an EV as his ONLY car.

    However, the vast majority of American families own two or more cars. And for them, an EV makes excellent sense as ONE of their cars. Or even as two of their cars if they have three cars. Most American families could manage very nicely with no sacrifices if only ONE of their cars burned gasoline, and any additional cars were EVs.

    It also does not make ECONOMIC sense, in terms of a family's finances, to sell or trade a working car in good condition for a new EV. But it makes excellent economic/financial sense to choose an EV when they need to buy a new car. It would take a decade for the auto industry to build enough EVs to replace the entire national fleet of private cars. And it would take that same decade for electric utilities to expand the grid to provide the electricity. So replacing ONE of your cars with an EV the next time you need to buy a new car makes sense if you are going to have more than one car anyway.
     
  11. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    ( Blushes faintly, looks sheepish ) I guess that'll teach me not to Post While Grumpy. :mmph: You are of course right. I am disappointed in myself, that I can do so little, and in GE, that they snowed me so effortlessly, ( :smow: <--me ) and I'm afraid I let it influence my post.

    Apologies.
     
  12. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I came up with $0.98 a day on the volt (35 miles worth)
     
  13. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    But what are your latest thoughts on charging stations?
     
  14. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Well, old Henry Ford the first, besides building cars, was an early aviation enthusiast. Speaking with pilots he came to realize that they had a lot of trouble knowing where they were - from a few thousand feet up it all looks alike.

    He sent out orders to all Ford dealerships that they were to paint the name of their town on the roof of each dealership - and voila' there were now several thousand helpful signs for pilots all over the country and he got a little publicity out of it for almost no cost.

    If they are serious about these new cars I'd like to see every Chevy and Nissan dealer in the country put a level two or three charging station out in back of the dealership somewhere.
     
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  15. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    So Cal Edison has a whole website dedicated to helping future EV owners plan ahead.
    I found this website from an advertisement banner here on PriusChat.
    SCE - Helping You Get Plug-In Ready

    :)

    UPDATE: According to the January 2011 print edition of Automobile magazine, the U.S. Department of Energy is offering FREE chargers to the first 5700 Leaf buyers who agree to let the U.S. DOE collect data on their charging habits for a DOE research project.

    .